Yes yes I know, I’ll start out saying I’m speaking mostly from a shuffle PoV.
However, I think one of my major issues with precog in the past weeks before and after it’s nerf has been double kicking. Within a shuffle context it’s very hard to coordinate who will kick, if it can be done at all in the time frame in which a single round of shuffle occurs.
Why I must ask is it (if they consider this so) considered healthy game design to get punished effectively because BOTH players with interrupts attempt to kick the same ability? I understand with a standard 3v3 you can typically organize these things to a degree, I used to myself in the older days long before a solo q was around.
Just to explain what I’m describing (using my own most recent experience), if a Boomkin is charging up a half moon, me (at this time a DK) and a Warrior both attempt to kick him because we’re in shuffle, not in sync. Thusly the second person who kicked him at the exact same time, procs precog and its like nobody pressed kick to begin with. Neither of us strictly made a misplay in interrupting this cast to lock him out of astral, but we get punished for it because Precog can still activate even immediately after a successful interrupt.
Maybe players better than me will dismiss this outright, but I don’t feel like you should be able to get precog immediately after being successfully kicked. It doesn’t need to be a -long- gap, maybe 1-2 seconds which often isn’t even as long as the silence to x school.
Yet another early morning Zali ramble thread complete.
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If you both try to kick the same cast that is by definition a misplay. It’s the same as if you both throw your stun into a target at almost the same time, both are misplays and should be punished.
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The punishment for the misplay is that a kick is unnecessarily spent, if going by the logic of your double stun analogy. It need not be compounded by CC immunity.
If you double stun, the first stun still goes, even if the second is wasted. The same should apply to precog. If you successfully kick, the first kick goes, the second is wasted.
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There’s a bit of a difference between two players in a random set up trying to make the same correct play, and CCing the same target.
The target doesn’t magically stop being CC’d immediately and can no longer be CC’d at all when you HoJ at the same time as Stormbolt.
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How is this any different than overlapping CC or defense cooldowns
All of those things do not immediately erase using them, because there’s no “precog” effect for these things.
We’ve already tried to address this so I’ll repeat it. If I Hammer of Justice a quarter of a second after my warrior stormbolts, we’re already punished because we lost our CC, but the CC doesn’t instantly get removed and you can’t CC them at all after.
Double layering an interrupt because you both tried to individually make a correct play, is already punished by neither of you having an interrupt. Adding onto it by precog firing off despite the spell being interrupted previously is just anti-gameplay.
As I said at the beginning, a 1-2 second interval where it can’t activate after being interrupted successfully would not cause some immense damage to casters. The two melee have already lost both their interrupts, that’s punishment enough for -successfully- interrupting you.
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Precog is not a bandaid on the kick system actually being unfair. It’s a bandaid on the game being poorly balanced
If you play a good comp with a good caster spec and you don’t plant to cast when you’re off stun dr (huge if, it’s also a bandaid on many caster players being terrible at this), it’s good for you if an enemy uses cc out of place just to shut down your casts.
If a warrior team suffers no meaningful loss of momentum wasting intimidating shout as a 1 second gouge on me, either I’m at a huge matchup disadvantage that permits such waste, or I’ve made some kind of misplay
Without precog, they’re never going to achieve a game where every single caster spec can have a fair matchup into every comp that has short CD instant ccs. I don’t think that matters at all, but the caster version of the morons that say “all specs should be viable buff fdk” clearly do, and right now blizz is catering to those people
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I agree, I think, but I’ll be honest that’s a lot of words.
If it seems like I was at all arguing that something like precog shouldn’t exist, let me be clear, I am not. I merely want it to feel like something I can play into meaningfully in most circumstances ALL the time.
Thusly I’m trying to address its more toxic elements, or at least what I feel is toxic about it. As a known warrior hater, I fully understand why it’s necessary and why CCing and micro ccing can be so fundamentally crippling to casters within the game’s modern design. That doesnt’ take away from attempts at correcting such an ‘arms race’ design need to be less… I guess I’ll give up and just say unfun and downright annoying as how precog currently functions.
I would quite honestly it rather have its stupid haste buff (if not a full 15% frenzy lmao) than it proc on a brief double kick.
oh and buff DUAL wield FDK, get it right.
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In my humble and completely unbiased opinion, lower rated healers in RSS need all the help they can get.
I wonder if they’re actually having trouble creating a conditional window where precog can’t proc within .1 seconds of a successful interrupt, or if they just don’t care. Because there is no way they think this interaction is actually how it should work.
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https://imgur.com/b6Q8TJh
Precog being funky ain’t gonna stop this.
I felt kinda bad, man was just trying to do placements. Pulled out a dub for him on the last round though.
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What spawned while you were gone?
An indigenous species of Moon Guard Stormwind.
If I juke 2 or 3 interrupts with one cast I should get a double/triple precog.
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They are bizarre creatures, you never know when one will spring up.
That would be great if there wasn’t 27 pseudo interrupt effects that you can rely on if you miss a kick. And doubling up your stuns does have a lingering effect, you’ve doubled up on your DRs on the target for a single stun, which means you have to wait for DRs again before throwing another stun.
…If they miss a kick, then you get precog, and can’t be CCed. This is why precog exists. It is not just a random boon meant to prop you up over the kicking monkeys.
If you try to juke, and you get kicked, you should be silenced regardless of whether or not someone else fumbles their kick a second after. You have already been outplayed, probably because you were casting predictably or out of position. I can only imagine how many bad habits this interaction is making for casters.
You still get locked on the school you’re casting from. If I’m casting in holy school and both melee try to kick, the first one lands and locks me on holy, the second gives me precog and I can cast on shadow school. That is working as intended, miss a kick and you give precog. The only bad habit is ape melee both instantly throwing out a kick the second they see a cast bar.
1 Like