Undocumented, yes, but, players who are pushing these +16/17 keys are very keen on timing these dungeons to increase their Mythic Rating and have concluded there was a stealth nerf to these items based on player data.
I don’t understand the logic behind nerf’ing these one time use weapons. These are actually TIME SAVERS. Isn’t that the whole point of a “timed dungeon event”, to finish with the most amount of time remaining to have a better Mythic rating score while tallying to your timed dungeons for IO? This is literally taking a step backwards. I understand player DPS makes up for 99% of the damage being conducted, however, the fact that these items have been nerf’d into oblivion is just a poor choice in development. These also make up a good chunk of DPS to burn the bosses down especially on Tyrannical week, because as players know we just LOVE Tryannical affix. There have been times in the past and present where these items became so detrimental for use to save time in timing a Tyrannical or Fortified dungeon by seconds. Before I’m “fact checked” by some ppl, no, I have not participated in M+ on this “alt” in S2, however, my Fury Warrior has timed NW+14 and those items that we’re nerf’d assisted immensely in assisting the players times the dungeon with a few minutes to spare which resulted in a overall 262 score based on +2 chest and time remaining which was around 5 min. That’s a really nice chunk of Mythic score added to your IO. Now, with the item nerf’s, they will seem to be somewhat useless but still effective to a degree.
The weapons should have been nerfed a long time ago. I don’t agree that it is ‘undocumented’. No other dungeon has such a cheese mechanic built in when the dungeon does not need it to be inline with the other dungeons.
I don’t terribly mind this, it’s unfortunate and I think too heavy-handed but it’s not the worst thing in the world. I’d rather see them nerf base damage by a small amount, making it so none of the weapons can crit, and leave the Kyrian buff alone. I also think the shield that no one bothers picking up needs a rework. Let it just be a 10 second, 10 yd DR aura around the user when it’s cast but they can still move, cast, etc.
That said, the undocumented aspect of this is horrendous and Blizz shouldn’t make such impactful changes without a big heads up. I did a NW last night, tank pulled a bunch of adds to the boss intending to spear them, the rogue chucked the spear and the adds didn’t die. The tank raged so hard at the rogue allegedly screwing up the run that he left. Now, obviously that tank was a problem and needs to chill and finish the run, but yeah, undocumented changes on keys that you can’t just restart at the same level are terrible practice. When a key is on the line we need to know.
Having 1 of 8 dungeons with a “cheese mechanic” weapons to assist you but does not make up overall DPS to complete in a timely manner isn’t a bad thing and I 'm sure players never said it was a “bad thing”.
Mythic dungeons revolve around TIME, not how fast or slow you can cheese a mechanic that works in your favor. I’m sure not every group utilized the spear method anyway. When players discovered that these Spears deal substantial amount of damage to the boss, it quickly became part of a strategy (not a cheese mechanic) to utilize the Spears that reduces the amount of time downing a boss, especially on Tyrannical hence increasing your chances of successfully timing the dungeon. Can they really determine the Spear, Anima Mote and Hammers were the cause of highly timed NW dungeons? Or, could players be that strategic with good gear and strat to beat it without the Spear method? It’s a grey area to justify it warranted a nerf. Alas, there’s nothing we can do now about it since it’s one and done and player will just need to carry on and pump harder than it needs to be. Now that this has been fixed, especially on Tyrannical affix, players on higher keys will see the noticeable difference despite how “easy” it was in the first place. Now NW bosses especially on Tyrannical, will take x3 spear. So, safe to say save x3 Spear + hero for last boss.
Seeing how I had 7 minutes left over on my +17 NW, the “nerfs” arn’t noticeable or a cause for concern. With pride gone, we are able to adjust pull sizes which by itself saves a lot of time.
The nerfs are going to add maybe 2-4 minutes to the timer if anything. The dungeon was basically a free ++ key when you can kill bosses in 30 seconds or less on fortified week. IMHO it was probably needed.
Siegebreaker’s Stand - Standing still increases your damage dealt by 4% every 1 sec, stacking up to 3 times. Upon reaching 3 stacks gain an additional 10% Armor. This bonus is lost when you move.
My tank buddy was posting screenshots of him doing 13k overall in NW keys.
high end gamers are to blame for this. Trash was pretty much non existent in this dungeon since weapons were used to melt big pulls. Look at Echo’s Necrotic wake runs, the nerf was overdue. This nerf just makes this dungeon on par with other dungeons similar to the plaguefall nerf.
No I’m not. I know exactly how many spears bosses can take then be killed. Post nerf just adds one extra spear, so, pretty much you need all three spears to kill a single boss because of damage reduction.
Pre-nerf, on Fortified week, bosses can take two spears and you’ll kill the boss. On Tyrannical, bosses can take 3 spears for kill.
Post nerf, these bosses are no longer 2-3 Spear kills since damage was reduced by 50%. So, how am I being over dramatic again with being factual?
The logic here is people would rather see a “strategy” nerf’d to work against them instead of working for them, especially the factor being TIME in this situation despite it being “over due”, “cheesy” or “OP” warranted for a nerf. Do you understand what you realizing here? Why work harder than you NEED to for something that’s there to make it EASIER…lol. “Work smarter, not harder” logic I guess don’t apply to many that can’t see the big picture here. Instead of this mechanic “saving time” it’s creating “more time”…get it now?
Which of these two would be more efficient that would be a time saver on Tyrannical week?
Pre-nerf: Kill a boss with 2 Spears?
OR Post-nerf: Kill a boss with 3 spears + hero?
The dungeon can be timed in its current form without any weapons being used at all. That being said, undocumented nerfs are weird. Just announce them. Also, the nerfs were needed.
Before these got nerfed, I was pushing my buddies +7 key. I pulled the entire first area while he picked up the spear, then had him throw it through all the trash mobs and into the boss. This killed everything, took the boss down to idk how low 65% or something, and we basically just killed it with the increased damage it takes from the spear.
We did this run in 15 minutes, start to finish, with 2 pugs and his alt mage. We also threw the spear through all the mobs on the second boss, which isn’t un-heard of I think that’s actually the meta strat, but then we pulled the upper portion and used both our orbs on it - effectively killing everything almost instantly without any risk.
This is a +7, I’m not saying it’s some incredible feat, but doing it that fast PURELY because of the weapons and the pulls I setup around them is completely imbalanced.
My run for reference if anyone wants to call me out on it. The two DK’s were pugs, Mage and I were ~70-80% of the overall damage because we used all the weapons to kill everything. The DK’s were effectively afk, healer was there to drop Ashen for the really big stupid pulls.
Again any good m+ players would not use 3 spears to kill 1 boss. Maybe I’m not sure exactly what you’re trying to say but it looks like you’re just being over dramatic and you might have actually used 2 spears to kill a boss and thought it was a good idea
Give it a try, we were 7 minutes under time. We used lust bosses 1, 2, 4. Two spears 3rd boss and last spear on final boss. We were also able to save 2 anima orbs for the upper level.