Understanding the Arcane Magic

Arcane magic as the magic of Order makes more sense if one thinks in terms of Order and Disorder in their contexts as verbs. Chaos is a relative state of something, while Order and Disorder - in the context of “Ordering and Disordering” - is the nature of a change taking place rather than either being a static endpoint.

To Order is to organize and build things up. To Disorder is to disorganize and tear things down. Either will be relatively chaotic when there’s no purpose or intent (or at the very least, not observably) directing them, but neither is truly fundamentally chaotic in its nature or there would be no consistency to how any spells work and magic would be impossible. Each has its own internal rules that govern how they function, which is why usable magic with reproducible outcomes exists at all, as learning to use fel or arcane magic amounts to learning proven processes that shape the energies certain ways any time they’re done correctly.

Hence why arcane energies unleashed without purpose start manifesting organized crystalline structures and geometric matrices in their surroundings, attempting to “build systems” in the absence of direction, while Fel energies unleashed without purpose manifest as volatile green fire or sludge that corrode and destabilize their surroundings, attempting to “break systems down.”

Arcane exists with Fel in the Twisting Nether because rather than just a “static” vacuum state of Order already being absent, Disorder is the literal function of “Ordering being undone.” So that manifests as a plane in which the raging energy of Disorder is perpetually breaking down the emerging energy of Order. And to varying degrees as well; Chronicle established that while the worlds upon which demons live exist in the Twisting Nether, it’s at the “periphery” where it exists “closest” to the Great Dark and the natures of both planes bleed across to overlap, meaning tangible things like planets and the demons inhabiting them can exist in an otherwise ethereal plane because the proximity of the Great Dark allows Order to take root and stabilize more firmly there against the Disorder of the Fel than it can further within the depths of the Nether.

(Consequently, it’s feasible that Outland may technically be submerged further into the Twisting Nether than even worlds occupied by the demons, as demonic homeworlds and the planets that get dragged into that plane by the Burning Legion’s corruption have continued to exist - albeit worse for wear - for ages, while Outland has been gradually disintegrating and crumbling from its edges through exposure to that realm ever since it was sent there.)

Long story short, to some degree “Order and Disorder” in WarCraft’s context are more like the dynamic processes of “creation and destruction of systems” rather than the inverse endpoints of something being either orderly or chaotic. Unlike Light and Void (with the conceptual “endpoints” of existence or nonexistence), or Life and Death (i.e. alive or dead), Order and Disorder are more like the manifest sliding scale of creation and destruction. To frame it with the actions of beings associated with Order and Disorder, the Titans’ nature is to build and make, while demons’ nature is to smash and ruin. As stated above, this same basic nature also manifests in the unsupervised spontaneous behaviors of Arcane and Fel.

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This arcane/fel dynamic is so much more dense and complex than anything else in WoW’s lore. Did they really think all this up? Or are we filling in the blanks for them?

I tuned out of WoW’s lore after Chronicles. A lot has changed. This is all new to me lol

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So since we’re on the discussion of the seventh sphere of magic, do you think origination is tied to arcane, or is origination the most pure expression of order?

Where does domination fall in this category?

From what I could understand, all physical reality is the result of Order, which is responsible for leaving everything in its place. The Order commands time and space, the two things responsible for ensuring that everything works in physical reality.

And unlike other cosmic forces, we see that the Order has a much more striking presence within physical reality, with its main entities being born from the planets and having a body containing the raw material from which physical reality was created.

According to the tradition told to us in Shadowlands, the universe was created from the clash between Light and Shadow, but was later organized by the First Ones. So I believe that physical reality emerged after this organization, after the cosmic “pattern” was established by the First Ones and after each cosmic force assumed its natural role in the universe.

This is starting to be heavily debated due to recent content involving the titan discs and their revelations.

Arguably that previous Titan souls were born from order and not crafted to be part of order

As for domination magic, it is linked to the cosmic force of Death. This magic is used to control other living beings, altering the minds of its victims to make them follow the user’s commands without them realizing it. It’s as if the victim thinks that she is doing what she really wants to do, not because she is being controlled.

The rule is that souls within planets give rise to titans, and only Azeroth contains this doubt as to whether or not it would be a titan. However, it is important to always remember that Azeroth is a special case as well.

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Agreed. I wouldn’t look at “Azeroth may not be a Titan after all” and conclude that maybe all world souls aren’t titans. We know that emphatically, Azeroth is Big Capital S, Special. Special enough for the Void to be invested in her fate. For Zozo to be invested, for Sargeras to be invested, for whatever Elune is to be invested. And of course, for the Titans to be super-big invested. We don’t hear about anything like that for any other world anywhere. Heck, it was our ties with Azeroth that let us use First One stuff, which apparently was a pretty dang big deal.

Now, carry on with the fun cool magic talk.

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The High Elves did warn them. The mages told them to piss off. Then as the dimensional barriers weakened around Dalaran from all the demon summoning, the Guardian was created to deal with the mess and to keep all knowledge of it from the general populace, this cynical use of the Guardian is what would influence Aegwynn to give the middle finger to the lot, and take it onto herself to literally breed her successor.

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I’ve never understood how a form of mind control could be an expression of the concept of Death. What does the idea of death have to do with controlling living beings? Isn’t that something we would associate with Order in any other setting?

For that matter, how does Death magic reanimate things? Isnt undeath an unholy midway point between LIFE and DEATH? How can the primordial concept of death give any form of life (or even unlife) to anything?

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The supreme power to suppress free will in the DC Universe is known as the Anti-Life Equation. So there’s precedent.

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Death is basically soul magic. It manipulates souls, we have souls, so on and so forth.

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And what does the anti-life equation have to do with the primordial concept of death? And is it solely limited by that concept? Or can it do things beyond that?

This might be a different situation with a similar name.

Ahh okay so its not literally Death magic. Thats just a misnomer for a much broader concept? Why is it the cosmic opposite to life, then? Living things can parasitize other things and take over their minds. This happens in real life for certain fungi and larvae. So, if domination is a part of the cosmic force of Death, then why can life do this as well?

Also, doesn’t life also involve souls? Like, in almost all cases in a fantasy universe? How is life the opposite of soul magic?

And have we explained why the pure, cosmic force of death is capable of granting beings unlife? Necromancy has to be a mixture of death AND life magic by this logic, right?

Ask Danuser & Co. I find it pretty dumb, personally. There’s always a chance Domination originated outside of the Shadowlands, too. Or that it is not exclusive to Animancy. With so many examples of possession, compulsion, and corruption pervading the setting more broadly, I question why spinning off Teh Dominationzes Magics! as some super special unique magic needed to happen at all.

Death = Necromancy is such a simple layup, but somehow we got stuck with a Superlich telling us the cosmic force involved didn’t matter. So Death is not required for Necromancy, as on its face stupid as that sounds.

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I really hate sounding like a boomer but I liked WoW’s magic lore better when it was simple and mysterious. This is all so overcomplicated yet it feels poorly reasoned out.

And it led to dozens of retcons in the process. Why?

:[

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We ask these questions every single day.

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I was under the impression everyone liked the post Chronicles magic lore but me.

Is it not popular with the fans? or at least more recent fans? I thought the fanbase generally loved Chronicles.

The issue with chronicles is that the playerbase enjoys and respects them. The developers and storywriters consistently do not.

I don’t know what the current loremaster position in blizzard does but they desperately need to start disciplining their writers and genuinely doing their job of being editors.

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Domination magic completely suppresses the victim’s free will.

Unlike Shadow magic, which acts on the negative feelings of living beings, such as hatred, fear and despair, domination sort of alters the victim’s perception, transforming them into a puppet without them knowing.