Undermined tier set

Classes Paladin
21

What do you mean?

I pay attention to mechanics and work to accomplish them.
I pay attention to priority cast and work to prevent them.

I communicate with my teammates to efficiently take down the obstacles in our way.

How I choose to do all those things through the class I play is irrelevant to the other players I play with just as their choice of class is irrelevant to me.

They can play whatever they like, I can play whatever I like and it shouldn’t overly impede accomplishing the content set in front of us.
That means, if something is meant to be defeated, it shouldn’t matter that we bring a Blood DK and a Brewmaster or 2 prot warrior or a Bear and prot paly to clear the raid.

It shouldn’t matter that William Boomkin is replaced by Debora Warlock because he has another commitment on that specific day.

It’s a god damn game, I’m not studying to get into medical school you doofus.

Each specs play somewhat differently, wtf do you mean?

Why aren’t you playing a DK instead of a paladin?

Whatever reason you’ll come up with is part of a gameplay choice.
Aesthetic, sound, lore, ease of play…

Whatever it is, that’s a gameplay choice.

They aren’t top on any fights in the raid and aren’t a meta M+ spec.
What do you mean top DPS?
They aren’t.

You realize there’s always going to be an “easiest spec to pilot” right?
This “problem” will never go away, it will always just shift to whichever next easiest is.
Do you really think we’ll somehow arrive at a point where people will say “ahh well I think we can objectively say all the specs are similarly complex to pilot”.

Come on, they have issues doing that with just the output and those are literal numbers you just push up and down.
And even when they get it in a good spot you still have people complaining its not…

It’s a never-ending loop.

The spec is popular, they should take notes why and try to emulate a bit of that to other specs.

Not tear this one down because it’s too popular.
You don’t put dirt and sh*t in your best selling cookie because you don’t think it’s fair it’s outselling your other ones.
That’s leveling down and it’s downright stupid and absurd.

2 Likes
22

BM hunter.

3 Likes
23

its okay for a spec to have a skill ceiling, its not obliterating the ease of acess to the spec by just nerfing builds, buffing spenders and reducing the amount of hopo we get.

thus making the spec healthier overal

24

Game has enough RNG already. I do not like any of the tier set bonuses for 11.1, even if I get what they were going for with the the whole goblin casino angle.

1 Like
25

I’m not against the idea of a skill ceiling or that Hopo should matter within the spec itself.
Those things pretty much everyone somewhat agree on.

I’m against the idea that a specs should be balanced against other Classes/specs through the lens of perceived/actual ease of play.

Because what is someone saying when he says that?

It can’t be just rearranging the current DPS chart so that simpler spec are at the bottom and more complex are higher whilst keeping the same relative difference for each spot.
That’s pointless and wasteful busy work.
It literally adds no value to the game whatsoever.

No, that would mean significant differences between those specs/classes (not even gonna talk about who decide which is more complex, that’s sure to be another subject of contention).

If they were, you’d have entire specs that would literally be pointless to play for entire expansion just because they got a simpler design.

Mythic raids would only bring the most complicated high DPS spec because “ease of play” is a mirage, it’s wow, it’s really not that complicated on a personal level and mythic raiders can play any classes/specs.

Raid buff would become irrelevant and at the very least you could expect magic classes to be the top performers which would put into question bringing warriors and monk since their buff do jack for those.

Which would then mean Blizz would tune the raid with this meta in mind, effectively locking out simpler spec from doing the content because they can never, BY DESIGN, compete in DPS with the “complex” specs.

This type of thing can only work if the “simpler” spec has something unique that is a hard requirement to complete the content, which they don’t do anymore and haven’t done in more than 15 years.

1 Like
26

Ret is significantly easier by a mile. Tankier mid range and has no mainteance buffs. Ret is the easiest not even close

To expand on that, dont need to track anything not even divine arbiter, dawn or judgement. Bm at least has barbed shot attack speed. Which is something

27

I clearly mentioned at all levels of play. I also mentioned the relation between time invested in a spec/mastery and its performance. And tbh nobody cares about mythic raids. World first groups are gonna run whats op or highest dps always. CE grouos will follow on that and hall of fame guilds will just fight the nerfed version of the raid anyways without the ssme sick optimization.

I am clearly talking about the AVERAGE player experience where ret is a cheat code.

I cannot continue conversation with you, you do not value experience or time invested in a spec. You do not value these things that separate a day one ret vs a 20y old ret. Current spec has nothing to show for. No hp management, no rotation, no cd syncing, no buff debuff , just press what lights up eveeytime. Goodbye

28

All level of plays would suffer from this.
Why would you bother playing a class/spec that’s just purposefully weaker without any contingent to make up for it?

That’s silly.

Challenges like ?? zekvir could be nigh impossible from your choice of class/spec whilst others would blast it out.

Meta in Mythic + would be even worse with some class/spec probably not even being able to accomplish getting the portals.

PVP might not be affected as much because they have their own balance.
But it’s not like this specific team have shown to be consistent.

Well even more reason to NOT balance around ease of play then.

What happens when someone who plays a “simple” spec wants to try doing harder content and is flat out barred entry on the sole basis of his spec being mathematically incapable of contributing the minimum amount required?

What kind of sh*t design is that?

That’s the worst kind of elitism.
“You’re playing the wrong class for this content” would spell utter doom for this game.

They don’t release enough content to warrant barring some spec from participating in some of them.

You’re just saying things without even thinking about what they would imply.

The AVERAGE player want’s to PLAY, he doesn’t want a second job.
The more complex you make the game, the more complex you make classes/spec, the less appeal you’ll have.

You can easily flip this argument the other way.

It is exactly because I value my time that I wish I didn’t have to play 60 hours to pick up another class/Spec.

A longer and more difficult learning curve CAN and WILL be a deterrent to many players.
Players who might have kept playing otherwise but will now stop because it’s too time consuming.
And what keep this game running is people paying a monthly fee to play it.

There’s plenty of stuff to do in game, but putting barriers on it over some misplaced sense of superiority on the complexity of what you play sure as sh*t not gonna incentivize players to keep playing it.

I think you lack perspective.

Again, rewarding complexity with DPS within a spec is fine, doing so across roles putting classes you might have no desire to play above others is not.

What is complex and what isn’t is subjective, we can generally identify what are the simpler and more complex spec but to then scale their DPS over it is never gonna end well.

There’s also a legitimate point to be made that Paladins mastery should come from using your utilities to save your group anyway.

If the rotation is so busy and time sensitive that you can’t do that then it weakens the paladin identity.

2 Likes
29

:dracthyr_shrug: ya balancing specs by difficulty is just dumb as bricks, idk why this is a common occuring statement in every wow space rn. complicated specs exist and people enjoy them, simple specs exist and people enoy them. both can be tuned competitively if healthy

nah bm is easier, if you need to track barbshot then frankly your something special (i also play bm hunter)

2 Likes
30

Anyone saying ‘ret is easy because you don’t have to track anything’ most likely uses ten different UI add-ons and WeakAuras to track everything on their ‘advanced dps spec.’ I am not interested in having to use third-party tools just to play this game at a decent level.

The fact I have to use a weapon swing tracker to ensure I don’t over-cap Holy Power is quite enough.

No, thank you.

2 Likes
31

I use zero addons and I do mostly pvp. You dont need to track a thing to do well as ret. Base ui shows whats important. Spec is so damn easy and autopilot, no need to worry