I know lots of people may not agree with me, but as a M+ nerd and also a fairly dedicated player (definitely not top tier), i must admit Beguiling is one of the best thing in M+ enviroment. I really enjoy reaping, part of it because of the ease of the affix and how it affected the dungeon overall. But also my problem with reaping was because it was too easy to deal with, making reaping almost a non-factor affix and in most case you and your group can just faceroll it easily. Now with Beguiling, yes, a little bit harder but it’s doing fine as a seasonal affix and propose a real challenge. You have to change the way you think about the run, and also your group may want to adjust/change strategy for each emissary rotation, therefore encourage your creativity very much. I’ve seen lots of new tricks, new strat compare to reaping back then. Of course there are still a few things that made beguiling pretty much an unfriendly affix, but i do hope Blizzard will address them soon.
The whole point of Beguiling was to screw so much with melee and rogues in particular that it would break up the composition skew that’s dominated the last two seasons. It not only failed at that, but ended up making rogues even more prominent by adding more obnoxious pulls you want to shroud/vanish, and void weeks making Cloak of Shadows even more hilariously strong. It looks like not even the upcoming nerfs are going to be enough to substantially change that.
It serves the opposite purpose of its intent. It’s not well designed. Definitionally. It might have worked in a dungeon design where there was less trash to choose from or more options in routing, but as is, skipping anything inconvenient or zerging the big magic nuke for free will save you far more time than anything else.
Reaping was better.
The 10s I’ve run this season haven’t felt harder, just more tedious. Feels too much like the stealth bits in a Zelda game, for me. I like that it’s a bit more tactical than reaping, but something about it just doesn’t click with me (even though I run mythics on my hunter, so things like LOSing the void casts aren’t an issue).
Class imbalance nowaday is a repercussion of horrible dungeon and class design, also part of it lies at the new azerite system. Beguiling overall is far more annoying than Infested, and Infested also harder than Reaping. But class imbalance at least was not a huge problem in 8.0, we’ve seen dh, sub rogue, boomy, mage and priest in MDI. That’s a point to indicate that affix design shouldn’t take all the blame for class imbalance.
I’ll taking beguiling over infested all day every day.
I’ll take beguiling and reaping at the same time over infested.
Screw infested.
The only really obnoxious Emissary placement I’ve seen so far, is when they put a Tides with the two spirit totem dropping mobs right before boss #3 in Underrot.
A super easy way to deal with that:
Have your druid root it in place and pull the other two mobs off of it. Or, if you don’t have a druid, have a melee taunt the tides away and 1v1 it while the others tackle the two mobs. Between stuns/interrupts, 2 DPS and a tank should be able to keep the two mobs interrupted while your one melee burns down the tides.
Not all of it, certainly. This one was just a very myopic attempt to solve it that ended up swinging it even further than before, because the devs and/or testers don’t seem to actually play their own game at an especially proficient level where these sorts of things would be obvious.
“Let’s make a new mob that reflects melee damage from 5 yards and has to be pestered by range.” Forgets rogues can easily hit midrange as well as getting extended default melee range, making them a complete non-issue.
“Let’s make a mob that nukes the whole room unless you LOS it and should be handled by range.” Forgets rogues can immune it on a relatively short CD, and forgets to put half of them near LOS forcing you to zerg it down anyway and making rogues even more desired.
“Let’s make a mob that prevents all CC/interrupts and makes trash even deadlier unless you spam ranged CC on it.” Forgets to give them truesight, and even if they had it people would pull away and vanish/death skip the worst of them anyway, making rogues again even more desired.
Like, these aren’t even details that emerge in top 1% and MDI. This is what would occur to most people doing their weekly 10.
For the enchanted emissary, not just outlaw but many class can also do the same stuff, at the same level but generally the enchanted one is not the main concern. Outlaw can handle the emissary, but also can do all other stuff better than any class. And if you really look at outlaw design this expansion, there is nothing that they can’t take care of.
The void one, normally no one want to fight her. People often find a way to skip her or simply just go another route if it’s a open dungeon. The most important thing is the void emissary is a true-sight mob, therefore make shroud become useless in most situation. She will only stay where she is and spam cast, so you can’t pull away her and vanish like most people did with another skip. Do you want to fight her with the pack located in front of the 2nd boss in atal? The void emissary has only one purpose, to prevent people from skipping mobs and therefore encourage everyone to adjust their strategy along with it.
Hmm, i found your post funny! In many cases, you can’t just skip any of these packs, because they’re tied up to something. For example, the first room in king’s rest, the third boss in atal. Also there are soo many of them in tides rotation week. Tell me if you want to skip them all.
First, only one of the new mobs has truesight. You can still skip that pull otherwise.
Second, even if it’s there you can still death skip it and come out ahead from what it would take to kill it. It’s just a 30s tax on the dungeon as a whole.
Third, rogues are ideal even just to do it the “intended” way by killing the emissary. Rogue pulls mobs out while the group hides on the stairs, group kills void and runs into the arena, rogue vanishes and rejoins them. Alternately, pull the whole thing and kill the void (leveraging cloak to survive the bursts), then die and brez in the boss room like a regular death skip. The hard part about that pull isn’t even the emissary, it’s that nobody wants to deal with the zombies.
I didnt say that you can’t skip that pull, the main point is how you execute your skip.
No doubt, you can execute a DS there as well, unless you have a full nelf comp. Perhaps i haven’t made my point clear on that.
Okay, give me a clip where people can actually kill the void in that pack within 10seconds while the rogue pull mobs to the other side. Sure you can faceroll it easily in 10s, but if you can actually execute that in 18/19s, you have my biggest respect.
this is a thing?
Everytime i open this game i immediately jump in keys. Isnt that a thing?
i check my mail like any decent person would do
Normal person would do that everyday no doubt. But, do you interested in finding out email work, what you can do to improve it or using all of your time to check your mail? I guess no.
first of all, i would like for you to improve upon yourself
Agreed with everything you said OP.
I LOVE the new affix. I also hated reaping because it was very predictable and boring. Also a lot of times without a rogue or hunter, or even still with one I’d pull aggro and die from auto attacks. It’s impossible to keep aggro on 20+ mobs, not fair to the dps or tank, in my opinion. Overall reaping was just an aoe fest. This seasons affix requires a LOT more thought.
Agreed. But ultimately beside the point.
Literally every strategy you could possibly employ against that pull – or nearly any emissary pull – rogues can do it faster and more safely than anyone else. It’s taking an obstacle you already wanted rogues to do, and making it more obnoxious in a way that makes rogues even more desirable. It changes your strategy from “throw more rogues at it” to “throw yet more rogues at it, but this way”.
Which is ultimately the whole problem with Beguiling in general.
I think Beguiling is worse compared to Reaping but still way better than Infested.
One maggot alone could pretty much ruin your key, while Beguiling also can, usually are other problems that deplete most keys these days. Beguiling only slowed down a bit the keys compared to Reaping, but it’s no way near as hard as Infested was.