Ultimate Retribution

(Stevas) #22

U play Ret!??! Nice! Who cares Josh cant pronounce ur name :))))

(Belerian) #23

While this might be true I can definitely see behaviour like this leading to nerfbat treatment.
This patch fueled my enthusiasm for ret again (luckily), but the damage I do in random battlegrounds begins to frighten me a little. Not long before other classes will cry for ret nerfs.
It was fun while it lasted…

(Àngelous) #24

This is my fear as well. I’m consistently topping the damage and killing blow chart in bgs and not by just a little. Just waiting for the crying to start.


A lot of things don’t use holy power but still act like they do, such as divine purpose, in some cases (works with selfless healer doesn’t work with HoJ.) However, as I mentioned the Light’s Decree animation actually happens.


One thing that gives me hope is that Ret finally has a more defined role and identity: high damage, strong deference, low mobility. In many previous years we were a very vague spec, with no clearly defined purpose (sometimes we were a strong off healer, then strong anti-CC, then bursty… it was all very chaotic), which I think led to many dysfunctional nerfs. Hopefully our awful mobility will be taken into account if and when people start crying.


Knowing the philosophy behind the Divine Purpose/Relentless Inquisitor interaction, I assume its the same thing but I’ll double check. Since you aren’t “spending” HP it shouldn’t trigger the effect. So the damage is correctly not triggering but the animation might not be getting the message.

(Wuhjikô) #28

Sorry for the slight derailment.

But is the team aware of the issue with wings for any paladin that previously had the glyph in. It’s stopping us from using the new wings when we talent into anything but avenging crusade.

Been an issue since 8.1 release and I’m sure most of the healers would actually like to use their new wings without picking an inferior talent for mythic+ content.

The only work around currently is to re glyph and remove it again and that only works until we log out and it reverts back to the glyph animation.

Just for testing purposes I’ve done

removal of all addons
removal of wtf folder
complete wipe and reinstall of the game
actually deleted my character and used the restore feature

Nothing works and I feel like it’s an issue on the teams end and it’s very depressing having a cool new animation that you simply cannot use because of a bug.

I’ve hit them up on twitter, reddit and made a bug thread. So far everything has been ignored and it would be cool just to know they’re aware of the issue.

(Bertimus) #29

I wish you played mm hunter so we could have this kind of discussion about scatter shot.


Awesome, thank you.


Ythisens, do you think you can ask the dev team about a glyph of exorcism? Would be really cool to have :slight_smile:

(Divenity) #32

Please yes… While we’re at it, a glyph for the Final Verdict animation from WoD would also be stellar, I absolutely adored that animation.

(Heckindoggo) #33

Do you plan on fixing the exploit that allows you to bubble rez immediately after someone dies or are we just going to keep pretending that it doesn’t exist?

(Ulthané) #34

I will say I think it would be really awesome if talents like Divine Purpose and traits like Empyrean Power would interact with traits like Light’s Decree or Relentless Inquisitor. Not gonna lie, if that type of interaction were to happen you would find many different trait combinations suddenly a thing and quite viable.

(Ulthané) #35

Literally would just change the Blade of Justice to appear as a blast of Holy Light. That is what people actually missed, though to be fair “Exorcism” made 0 sense against non demon/undead targets HOWEVER I got one better for this concept.

Glyph of Blade of Light (Exorcism) basically the Blade of Justice could be an animation that points to your target with your weapon and they get blasted by holy light. Or we could use the Exorcism animation. Either way, would be good flavor.

(Ulthané) #36

That would be cool!!! While we are at it, I wonder if we will see an update to Hammer of Wrath animation as well O.o

(Ilivath) #37

The issue is that Blizzard has never publicly stated their philosophy regarding interactions with free spenders. In Legion DP used to give stacks of Crusade. Pre-patch changed that. For all we know it was either a bug or an intended change.

Most players were starting to accept the fact that the wording of “per Holy Power spent” meant it would nor work on free casts as they did not consume HP.

However, 12/20/2018 Hotfix notes came out and now and tossed the idea completely on its head.

  • Paladin
  • Relentless Inquisitor (Azerite Trait) now benefits from free casts caused by Divine Purpose or Empyrean Power (Azerite Trait).
  • Retribution
    • Crusade now benefits from free Divine Storm casts caused by Empyrean Power (Azerite Trait)

Both Relentless Inquisitor and Crusade use the verbiage of “per Holy Power spent” but all of a sudden Empyrean Power now grants stacks to these abilities.

Now we no longer know how these interactions should behave going forward. As mentioned Empyrean Power is procing the Light’s Decree animation but not the damage. Fires of Justice only provides 2 stacks instead of 3 when using Crusade or Relentless Inquisitor. Fist of Justice suffers from the same issue where it gets no reduction from free spenders or a partial reduction when using a spender with a Fires of Justice proc. The trinket Bygone Bee’ Almanac is in the same boat where it does not benefit from free spenders or gets a reduced effect from Fires of Justice.


Agreed. Holy Power effects and their interaction with different abilities should be codified. The incoherence with how these effects interact in seemingly identical ways isn’t exactly something most players would expect. Take for example Light’s Decree in light of these latest RI, EP and DP hotfixes.

Imagine for a moment you’re playing Divine Purpose after having played with Crusade and Relentless Inquisitor. Naturally you would expect Light’s Decree to function in the same manner EP interacts with Crusade and RI, because it just makes sense, and flows from what would be intuited by the player. What we actually end up getting is a potential feelsbadman moment when you, in what would typically be a moment of glory, get a flurry of back to back EP and DP procs during wings only to find that what happens instead is you end up dealing less damage (and increasingly so with more than one Light’s Decree trait) than you would had you not gotten these procs, because they’re not interacting with that trait, which just feels as dumb as it sounds.

On top of that, what is the distinction between free Holy Power effects and those that reduce the cost of a spender? e.g. Fires of Justice. Following the logic laid out in the hotfix, one would expect to see FoJ generating full stacks just as a free ability does, but of course what happens instead is this effect only generates two of x stacks reducing the effectiveness of what would occur had it not proc’d at all.

So a question: Don’t you think its a bit goofy that having gotten lucky with procs is actively damaging, or reducing the effectiveness that would otherwise be expected out of making such talent and gearing decisions? I sure as hell think so.

(Ashokara) #39

So I’ve been using this in World PvP as it sounded cool, but my Crusade keeps going on CD when it activates.
Is that the desired effect? You get Avenging Wrath for 6 seconds but you lose your 25s Crusade for 2 min?

(Tankar) #40

It is not, and it has essentially made the talent almost unusuable.

(Callistos) #41

Do you have any idea if/when Ultimate Retribution will be fixed so that when it procs, it won’t cause a 2-minute cooldown of Crusade?