Does the talent Ultimate Retribution work in Rated PVP? If not, why does it even exist?
For the same reason Justicar’s vengeance is still a thing.
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And Seal of Mercy.
JV was reworked (we’ll see if it’s useful for anything in DF) and both JV and Seal of Mercy at least can be tuned to make them useful even if Blizz doesn’t want to, but Ultimate Retribution seems like the kind of thing they won’t accept on a concept level in Rated content.
JV is still gonna be useless. You will get more damage and healing by using TV and building up hp for Wog.
This talent still being in even though its been a DEAD talent since its inception shows how skilled this pally dev team is.
Going by tooltips right now, and ignoring Templar’s Vindication, on my PTR character, TV says 11,158 damage, JV says 8,858 damage (13,287 on stunned characters), Word of Glory says 15,837. Picked up FV, says 13,287 on the tooltip.
2 JVs on a non-stunned character would add up to 17,716 damage and healing, more than 1 TV+1 WoG and also more than 1 FV+1 WoG.
These numbers could end up meaning nothing once DF is out and we’re level 70, but for now maybe there’s a chance. I mean, either that or I’m missing something here.
Healing Hands increases WoG substantially for lower health targets. Check out how much more it does on a 1 hp friendly in the Kyrian training area. It’s pretty big. The scaling on JV leaves something to be desired on raid bosses except in very niche situations where you probably wouldn’t even need the heal anyway due to the typical guidelines that when the boss is stunned, that’s usually a “vulnerable” phase where big damage is not going out at the same time.
I actually would’ve preferred it they kept JV to 5 HP and just made it hit harder than FV, with no increased damage on stunned targets. At least then you could use it with DP (if they fixed that interaction anyway) or during high incoming damage phases.
Templars vindication, virtuous command, righteous veedict all addup tp the damage. To be honest even if JV ends up being useful Id rather have then make it a passive. Heal for x% of damage done or heal x% per judgement cast idk. I never enjoyed JV even back in legion when it was super strong. In terms of sound and animation is literally TV. So Id rather have them completely change it. Also it is heavily nerfed in pvp where it is meant to shine.
Several of our PvP talents need work. Ultimate Retribution is high on that list.
I agree that JV has the potential to be useful, if pretty situational, in DF. But one of the issues it almost surely still has is it doesn’t count absorbed damage towards the heal. So in PvP you need to watch out for both absorbs and damage reductions. And the target should probably be stunned. And you may want to talent into Selfless Healer so you’re not “wasting” Healing Hands, but SH tends to be weaker than HH. And JV doesn’t benefit from some of our later talents that buff TV.
JV is just a lot harder to make useful compared to something like Death Strike. I’m actually more interested in trying it out in mythic+. Even though it’s less likely you need to heal yourself there, JV drops a lot of the baggage that it carries around in PvP.
I think everyone would agree that 2 JVs need to add up more damage and healing than 1 TV+1WoG. Both in PVP and PVE. And by some decent margin, too, otherwise the talent is absolutely pointless.
Even if it added up its still an unnecessary wasted talent. You’re simply going to get the same effect alternating between Templar’s Verdict/Final Verdict and Word of Glory. With Templar’s Verdict with Seal of the Templar and Final Verdict having greater range. An Word of Glory needing no target in range when using it on yourself.
That’s why I said that 2 JVs must OUTDO 1TV+1WoG, at LEAST. Otherwise it’s pointless.