A talent that can easily be avoided because its just more rng. Which somehow makes my statement worse.
Im racking my brain, but it feels like the last time our talent choices actively encouraged us to use Holy Power, and not in a completely degenerative way was when AC had a 20% chance to proc Wings. Which, tuning aside, was perfect. You were always encouraged to as much Holy Power as you could for the Wings proc, and that was when our Spenders felt like they actually did something so casting them never felt like a waste.
Where now, they do almost nothing while costing a fortune and have no practical use to our actual playstyle of spreading and proccing glimmers.
Well, the issue is more so how Glimmer fundamentally works.
Every healer has it’s “Holy Shock + HoT” effect, they just go about doing it slightly differently.
Shaman hits Riptide and Healing Stream Totem, which heals and leaves a HoT, then while that HoT ticks, they are free to cast DPS abilities or other heals.
Druids hit Rejuv, and while that HoT ticks, they are free to cast DPS abilities or other heals.
Holy Priest hits Renew, and while that HoT ticks, …
Disc Priests hit Shield, and while Atonement last, their DPS causes it to function like a “HoT”
If you hit Holy Shock on the Warrior, then hit Holy Shock on the Mage… followed up by a Divine Toll… Where are your 3 Glimmers? Did 2 get shifted to the Monk and Druid? Did one go on you? Did all 3 apply to enemies?
Now, you can claim this is a skill cap thing, which too some level you’re right, but ultimately it’s hard to argue that the system isn’t working against you.
Paladins don’t have X amount of Glimmers that can be put on allies, vs Y amount of Glimmers that can be put on enemies.
There’s no separation of buttons or debuffs.
Until the application of Glimmers gets solved baseline, tying it to Holy Power Finishers would only make matters worst.
I wanna cast WoG/LoD on my Mage, but I don’t want to shift the Glimmer form the Warrior to the Mage in the process… >.>
I’ll be honest, this reads as only speccing into Glimmer and never touching Blessed Focus or Illumination, which I assumed nobody ever did, so I never considered what players do when they only have a cap of 3 active glimmers.
Which to me feels like such a crazy massive hindrance to an already very clunky spell that I can’t even fathom how you would balance it.
There’s multiple layers behind it that bleed into one.
The application and management of Glimmer is cumbersome to your average player
With how Glimmer is applied, how does an average player constantly keep track of Glimmer? Does making Holy Power finishers spread Glimmer make this better or worse?
Glimmer can have a wide swing of healing potential when it is a core part of your kit.
Obviously management is less of a factor with 8 Glimmers, for sure, but even then.
Imagine I have all 8 of my Glimmers on enemies, and you have all 8 of yours on allies.
What’s our difference in Healing and damage going to be?
What’s our output potential? Are you balanced around 8 Glimmers being used offensively or defensively? 4/4? 2/6? etc
Honestly, I think we should dump of Dusk and Dawn and replace it with Ashen Hallow in the class tree. Give all 3 specs access to it. Even a heavily nerfed version that replaces consecration is fine by me.
Make the capstone reduce its CD or increase duration or something.
I’m fine with the seasonal blessings but also okay if they’re just deleted.
In my opinion, allowing the spenders to apply Holy Power would make it significantly less cumbersome, as WoG and LoD would only work on allies, and if you are a madlad who can only apply 3 at a time, well the gameplay loop of the newest dispelling the old would happen regardless.
Though personally while I’d much prefer if they just got rid of Glimmer entirely, I feel the benefits of allowing more of our abilities to spread and proc glimmers would at least be the best place to start.
Once Glimmer actually interacts with the core mechanic of the class, then we can start working on how Glimmer is supposed to apply the healing/damage.
They gutted Hpally anyone saying otherwise hasent seen all recent logs let alone some of the post elsewhere slamming blizzard for gutting holy.
From what i seen and i use to love Hpally for the last decade . they keep trying to push all our healing onto either Procing Procs or Using CD the only that has so many buttons atm as a healer.
This spec is almost garbage atm in TWW. the aoe healing is just so bad atm in both S4 and TWW beta that your better off rerolling to another healer we are currently C tier btw labbled by lot of the highend mythic raiders even the paladin healers are saying this.
They should of added a beefed version of LoD like how Flame is but they also need to make it an aoe not a cone. it’s crazy how everyone but hpally has a aoe heal of some sort but us. Ty’s isnt it
And tbh glimmer is not a fun playstyle i’d much prefer a Renew/rejuv instead. doubt hpally will be fixed by TWW Launch. i missed most exp pack and i see much has not changed. MOP/Cata/Wrath Hpally was in such good spot and even legion.
I’m also worried they took out Divine purpose and remade it as the procs from it helped give us some form aoe despite LOD is garbage atm.
I have seen people saying Hpal is ‘fine’ this late into S4/Beta. After two seasons of being 30-15% behind of all other healers.
To be fair it seems they are attempting to fix some of the issues like the power of our spenders, but the class feels like it needs so much work still. A total re-design even. No other healer at the moment has the core issues in the spec design as Hpal. And I’m glad a lot of people are finally talking about this in mainstream more often.
Prevokers has range limitations that are annoying, and Rshammies have received barely any changes, Disc may even be undertuned in Beta, but Hpal has right now so so many problems.
A far as I’m concerned Mana issues are still going to be thing in higher end content since barely any changes have been made, DPS, button Bloat, Spec Tree AND class tree issues, lots of interactions that make the spec clunkier or feels bad to play round. Balancing/tuning problems due to the overall design of the spec. And even then we have still stuff like Blessing of Sacrifice nerfed even further? Idk, all of this feels like this is still gonna be an issue months into TWW.
The holy shock healing buff does virtually nothing, and the damage side of it is so weak that they should just remove it, not worthy press the buttom to do like, 10k damage lmao
Totally. It was a 30% buff, which sounds like a lot, but the ability was healing for 2-3% of a Health Bar anyways. It still costs 2.8% of base mana, AND they nerfed its CD from 8.5 secs to 9.5 secs, rendering the bonus from S1 tier set useless.
I mean, at this point it feels amazingly bad to be nerfing one of the weakest spot heals in the game. I think the initial hit of regrowth does more healing now.
I’ve been playing holy paladin since vanilla and they are just making it more and more difficult to enjoy playing.
Delete all the auxillary healing sources, make glimmer do less healing, but more damage. Make holy shock do substantially more damage and healing. Let me spend Infusion of Light on buffed consecrations. I’d like to see Consecration do meaningful group healing and damage. Pressing it as a 20% damage amp because my spenders feel like poo is not good gameplay.
If we are going to keep holy power(bad design imho), we need either the builders or spenders to be mana-free. ATM to do maximum DPS is substantially more mana-intensive then maintaining high HPS.
I’m tired of needing to set up healing moments with something like HoD/Tyrs/Virtue. As far as I can tell, this entire patch note implies they want holy paladin to be useless in M+ as all we are getting is nerfed aoe healing and shock CD increase. Light of Dawn still is not and will not be viable in M+ imho. Want me to use it? Make it like Wild Growth. Hits 5 targets within 30yd of the target. I can’t be spinning like a top and dodging frontals to use it-- and even with the 25% buff we won’t be pressing it unless it hits 5 people.
tl’dr-- h pal dev needs to start from scratch. Give the tree the same attention the monk dev is. I don’t know of many people who enjoy “caster” paladin, but it should be easy enough to split the tree left to accomodate.
It actually does. I did the numbers some weeks back. Same for every single healing spell equivalent for essentially ANY of the healers. Even with 35% buff from LotM abd 30% buff from last week.
You spoke only facts there. Agree on every point.
I would even take Consecreation out as an active ability, just like they pruned Jade Wind on MW/WW.
Have you posted this on the feedback: paladins thread? We need as much as feedback as we can on all these matters since I’ve seen so many players on the same page and we still need more until blizzard decides to seriously re-design the spec one again.
I’m a fan of deleting holy power and making IoL procs stack to reduce hard cast time like the old days. I don’t see why we need holy power at all it’s just bungled things up.
New Talent: Extrication – Word of Glory and Light of Dawn gain up to 30% additional chance to critically strike, based on their target’s current health. Lower health targets are more likely to be critically struck.
New Talent: Liberation – Word of Glory and Light of Dawn have a chance equal to your Haste to reduce the cost of your next Holy Light, Crusader Strike, or Judgment.
New Talent: Truth Prevails – Judgment heals you and its mana cost is reduced by 30%. 50% of overhealing from this effect is transferred onto 2 allies within 40 yards.
Glistening Radiance has been redesigned – Spending Holy Power has a 25% chance to trigger Saved by the Light’s absorb effect at 30% effectiveness without activating its cooldown.
Light’s Protection has been redesigned – Allies with Beacon of Light receive 5% less damage.
Overflowing Light has been redesigned – 15% of Holy Shock’s overhealing is converted into an absorb shield. The shield amount cannot exceed 10% of your max health.
Rising Sunlight has been redesigned – After casting Avenging Wrath, your next 2 Holy Shocks cast 2 additional times. After casting Divine Toll, your next 2 Holy Shocks cast 2 additional times.
Glorious Dawn has been redesigned – Holy Shock has a 12% chance to refund a charge when cast and its healing is increased by 10%.
Holy Shock Triggers a burst of Light on the target, dealing (48.96%120% of Spell power) Holy damage to an enemy, or (190%265% of Spell power) healing to an ally.[Holy Shock: Has an additional 10% critical strike chance]
Generates 1 Holy Power
Damn thats a massive shift in spec design. Assuming they will allow Holy Shock to be powerful on it’s own again (haven’t looked at tuning, doesnt matter until prepatch anyway), Hpal could be back in a big way.
