TWW: Archon Priest

This spec originally sounded to me like you’re an epic angelic spellcaster using holy magic to blast your enemies with searing light and burst your allies with cleansing healing. Turns out the entire spec is based around… Halo… I’m so disappointed by this one :confused:

I was really thinking this spec would feel something along the lines of the old Kyrian Priest power Boon of the Ascended. Where the Archon would have moments of high personal power and burst along with the class flavor of being sort of an angel of light smiting and healing, like I said above.

I know it’s probably too far into the development cycle to change this entire hero spec now, but if it’s not… please Blizzard. Halo is not fun or interactive gameplay at all. This ends up making it feel like Halo is just a sort of boring yet powerful pseudo-DoT/HoT, rather than a cool gameplay changing button.

I’ll definitely be sticking to Oracle unless Archon ends up surprising me by how it feels on the beta.

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I agree that the theme Archon doesn’t match well with the fantasy from other properties I disagree that oracle is more exciting.

The core of Archon looks cool with gold rings flowing in and out from the priest and is a solid healing cooldown. Oracle on the other hand is lackluster in both graphics and when looking at health bars. Nothing from Premonition immediately moves the health bar, that happens on the follow up cast. Getting the most from Oracle is also a micromanagement nightmare that only the very very best will benefit from (maybe if the stars align)

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I unfortunately also agree with your assessment of Oracle. I was massively anticipating “Archon” though, and it ended up being way more milquetoast than I anticipated. Halo is one of my least favorite spells on Priest. I guess it makes it easy to share a tree with Shadow since Halo operates under Holy and Shadow as is, but I would have massively preferred some new spell— or mechanic on an existing spell that really felt like it changed your gameplay and fulfilled the fantasy stronger than Halo going in and out of my character…

I was a holy priest all of Dragonflight and neither Archon nor Oracle looks like any fun to me so I’m hard swapping to resto druid

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I don’t blame you. It’s a shame to me as a lover of spellcasting, it seems that the only offensive holy-empowered light wielder that Blizzard allows in the game is Ret Paladin.

I was hoping Archon would give me a taste of pure holy magic power on the Priest I’ve wanted to feel for so long, but it doesn’t seem like that’s happening. I’m not a fan of Shadow magic personally compared to light.

(As an aside, I feel the same way about Necromancer not being allowed in the game because Death Knights “already cover that archetype”. Which is silly logic to me because technically Warlock already covered the same niche as Demon Hunter which still was added to the game. I just really like spellcasters :))

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Boon of the Ascended was mainly a dps ability that did some light atonement healing. You could keep the tank alive for 10s, but you couldn’t use it as a serious raid/party heal cd. You also had to do a lot of key presses between the blasts and novas to maximize it.

Halo at its core isn’t an interesting ability to use, but you have to look at what exactly Archon Halo is trying to address.

Holy Priests in M+ currently lack passive AOE healing outside of just Prayer of Mending so you need to use single target heals to top everyone off one at a time. It makes healing pulsing AOE mobs a lot harder than Disc and you still need to manually heal people <100% hp to 100%.

With Archon Halo its 15s of pulsing AOE healing + damage on a 1 minute cd. Most pulsing AOE mobs you’re going to run into outside of bosses only last about <30s so you can cover 50% of the abilities damage. You can also use it as a dps ability and passively top people off <100% to 100% that you would otherwise need to manually heal.

This means less needless Flash Heal casts to top people off who aren’t in immediate danger of dying and hopefully more comfort in healing pulsing AOE mobs. Less heal casts = more dps uptime = less mana spent on heals. It’s also one button press vs 5+ to make Boon do its work.

For raid Archon Halo will do a ton of healing since you can hit 20+ targets with it. It pulses back-and-forth and leaves a +10% healing buff. It’s very op and I’m expecting them to nerf its healing.

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I didn’t mean I wanted a carbon copy of Boon of the Ascended, I just wanted something to augment the gameplay as powerfully as that ability. It was an example.

To your points about M+ and other more mechanical gameplay features, they are all fair of course, but I was never under the impression that hero talents were meant to band-aid issues or weak points the class was dealing with. I’m not exactly sure where you came to that conclusion. From everything I’ve been hearing, hero talents were always talked about as, and meant to be a creative way to solidify class fantasy into the game for the player, as well as offer varied playstyles and progression as we level up in TWW.

Now obviously balance of these hero talents is important I’m not saying it isn’t or anything like that. And when it comes down to it, these things need to feel good in higher content. What I’m getting at is they could fix problem areas with or without hero talents, and I believe hero talents shouldn’t feel… boring and uninspired.

I don’t know. I guess the talents will come out and we’ll all get used to it eventually like we always do. It just sucks that certain specs are getting incredible talents and then Priest just gets this. (Voidweaver is looking insanely good which makes me all the more yearning for Archon and Oracle to compare.)

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Hero talents are meant to augment an existing ability and make it stronger: more class fantasy focused. Without seeing the Priest talents like you said were largely in limbo.

Given our track record Priests are always last on everything. We didn’t get our launch talent trees until the last minute in the DF beta which led to Holy being in a clunky launch state that took a lot of hotfixes and minor patches to get it to where we are now and Disc/Shadow got overhauled in two major patches.

I agree about Priests seeming to lag behind often on these things. I dropped my Priest this expansion specifically for various reasons like not having an interrupt, losing Shining Force, limited or not very useful utility compared to other healers, etc.

I’m hoping many of these problems are addressed in TWW (including the ones you listed) and I’m excited to get my hands on the beta to actually feel the gameplay of these new talents. Even if I reallllly wish Halo wasn’t the chosen talent for Archon lol. I’d love to focus on my Priest again!

Would be nice to be able to create a Halo at your target whenever you cast a Holy Word: Serenity (Holy) or Shadow Word: Death (Shadow) for like 20-50% reduced amount compared to your actual hard cast of Halo.

So these Halos created from your “Word” spells would not do the expanding and contracting / multiple Halos. It would just be a single Halo for a reduced amount of healing/damage.

Adjust how often they will happen as necessary so its always when struck or a %chance to happen.

But the goal would be via normal gameplay you will see mini Halos going off throughout the battle field.

I would like to be able to Death multiple targets and get resets on it to see multiple Halos firing at multiple placed targets and seeing Halos crossing over eachother.

That would be something very interesting to see gameplay wise and giving you the feeling of actually changing things up.

I like this idea, could be fun to play as well

Heavily lacking of class fantasy, i expected something like a super angelic form like advertized by its lore text. At least this is how i imagined it to be.

Also we are supposed to be between two extrems so i expected some shadow visual for Holy and some holy visuals for shadow.

Does Archon seems solid? Probably but it’s not satisfying in any way for me.
Blizzard is so disinterested in Archon that it doesn’t even have an explanation for the intent behind.

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Meh I disagree with this bit.

The in between Holy and Shadow aspect is what Discipline is.

The similarity between Holy and Shadow is that they both go fully into their respective aspects of Holy and Shadow.

So Holy becomes its ultimate self and Shadow becomes its ultimate self. But each ultimate self does not need to have any crossover with the other.

They each do what they do and do so very all in so to speak. Holy embraces being envelopes by the Light and Shadow embraces being enveloped by the dark.

That’s how I see it anyway.

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I agree with you that Archon Holy should go all in on the holy light, and I also agree with the poster above you on this point below

I really expected Archon to be epic. They should just rename the spec to “Ring Master” lol. Sorry I just can’t get into Halo. Bringing back Cascade would have been more fun for me than a pulsating ring.

Just look at how gorgeous Cascade was. :confused:

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Oh I would love Cascade back for sure.

It’s really sad to see how sidelined this ability is.

In the DF beta feedback forums the devs even mentioned they would like to bring it back one day. But alas, still no sign that is happening just yet.

I’m not sure if we’d see Cascade tbh as a casted ability. Archon Halo functionally does the same thing as Cascade without the fancy looking vfx. Your Halo’s pulse back-and-forth healing your targets multiple times… that’s basically what Cascade does.

Holy has a button bloat problem as well and adding Cascade is just 1 more button on your bar on-top of Halo. If they get rid of Rhapsody Holy Nova then you can slot in Cascade.

I think Cascade would function better as a passive talent baked into PoM. They can trim down a lot of the unneeded PoM talents and just bake it into Cascade PoM.

Visuals wise, there’s like a 90% chance they’d make Cascade only show on the Priests screen because multiples of Cascade going off at once would cause performance issues for people.

I’m not convinced on this point.

Through my numerous experience in MoP a bit and especially in WoD PvP, Cascade just felt a lot better and here is why…

Cascade is much faster and follows the target where when it fires, it goes after and follows them, they literally cannot escape by running away out of range unlike with Halo you can move away and avoid it completely.

It can also hit the same targets multiple times and even faster when they are closer together as the bounces have less travel time. Where as Halo it will always be a slow moving ring that cannot be adjusted based on target distance like how Cascade can be.

Also, if you want to proc something like Twist of Fate, Cascade can hit a target that is low HP and trigger it which will instantly make all your other Cascade bolts get amplified without you needing to find a low target to snipe yourself. But with Halo, if that Twist of Fate trigger happed because of Halo, it will most likely not benefit as much or to a lesser degree because unless that triggered early on from the Halo origin point, it will only effect targets beyond the point of trigger which most likely is the tail end of the Halo effect as it cannot reverse like Cascade does with its bouncing around everywhere.

This is sort of handled by the multiple Halo rings in its expansion and contraction effect from Archon, but it doesn’t look to be on the same level of fluid and flexibility that Cascade does even in the Archon version.

From the beginning Halo was the longest cooldown at 45 seconds with Cascade being 30 seconds and Divine Star at 15 seconds. The cooldown basically decided the damage each does. But the reason Cascade became the best choice is because of how it works mechanically with it being able to hit multiple targets both far and close and do it multiple times. Something both Halo and Divine Star lack.

Also, they were all instant cast… yet now we have Halo being by all accounts a lesser quality spell compared to Cascade on both mechanical and visual basis and it has a cast time.

So to conclude…

I think Cascade is a far superior spell compared to Halo… but if we have to select the better spell in fitting in theme for Archon then yes… Halo unfortunately fits in theme and visual as the Archon and angels etc. have “Halos” above their head and as such you have that connection. It’s just sad that it is so boring and doesn’t really impact gameplay one bit. It just fires and forgets and sure I guess we get more procs from Surge of Insanity or Surge of light… but that just means we do what we do more often… nothing is actually changing.

I am still limited to the targets I’m in combat with that don’t have dots on them beyond 8+ unless i manually cast my dots on each target even if they are at like let’s say 30% hp. Too high HP to Death them for full damage and too low HP to justify casting dots on each one all the while they are beating me while I wait for my Halo to either come back on CD or for it to return and expand again and again… or I don’t wait for it and manually cast something to hopefully kill the targets which means the Halo was worthless as it didn’t do what it was designed to with it’s supposed high damage capability.

This is a bigger problem for Shadow compared to Holy because of how Shadow mastery works. If you deal damage to a target without your dots on them, your damage is severally reduced unless you’re in Voidform. So you HAVE to have your dots on the target to deal any amount of worthwhile damage.

I just don’t see Halo helping this situation out. But I can see it with Cascade because each bounce can happen to the same target multiple times in quick succession and actually be able to kill the target even without your dots on it. Something that will either not happen with Halo or take far far far too long to accomplish.

Maybe?
I dunno, I saw other priests using Cascade just fine in WoD a decade ago with my potato of a PC back then lol.

Ultimately what determines which ability is better would be how much overall hps both abilities bring to the table.

If they stack Holy with big bursty raid wide heals like Cascade and Archon Halo then they’re going to make us weaker in other areas to compensate. If you look at Shadowlands for example: Holy’s power output was mainly in Flash Concentration Heal. BFA was Prayer of Healing w/ Echo of Light Azerite Traits and stupid amounts of mastery.

This expansion they pushed most of our healing into our cooldown oriented abilities (PoM, CoH, Holy Words, etc) and pulled the healing out of our “filler” spells. This is why Flash Heal, PoH, etc. are like <3% of our healing in raid instead of being 30%+ in SL.

The bigger elephant in the room is how they’re going to solve the giga-overhealing issue from this expansion. We overheal around 40%.

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Well sure, but that problem exists regardless and detached from the Halo vs Cascade topic.

Numbers are numbers and I couldn’t care less about that really. I just like how Cascade behaves from a mechanical standpoint and it also just so happens to be more visually pleasing compared to Halo.

Halo is boring and I HATE that it does not hit targets that you are not in combat with… :rage:

But with Cascade, you can launch Cascade at lets say 5 targets that you are in combat with… then 10 more targets get added AFTER you fired off Cascade, but each bolt seeks a new target after it hit the previous target and as such it will find the new added targets if it’s still bouncing around… where as Halo does not and I can’t tell you how many times I’ve got adds on me… you know the little tiny adds that spawn from bigger adds like insects that when I cast Halo… it just completely ignores them or hits them once but does not do enough damage to kill them… meaning I have to use Shadow Crash on them or hope my Death is enough to finish them off or manually cast a spell like mind Blast and Mind Spike and HOPE that is enough to kill them per cast or worse case have to spent time casting Vampiric Touch or using my Shadow Word: Pain instant cast spell which I basically never touch because of Misery which just makes it awkward to use since I don’t have it on common and easy to use within reach and muscle memory keybind.

It just makes the entire experience of using Halo awful because of how they adjusted it so prevent accidentally pulling targets not in combat…

It sucks quite frankly lol.

I don’t mind Halo on its own as a single press and fire off ability, but the fact that Archon Halo makes it pulse on our characters in and out like a heartbeat or like our character is some kind of black hole is very unappealing to me. I just can’t stand something being attached to my character like that.

If Archon’s main spell was Cascade, it would make a ton more sense because Cascade was originally thought of as “OP” before it was removed, and it generally feels like a nice ability to press on its own. Making Cascade Archon’s main ability also makes sense to me because you technically want “hero talents” to feel impactful and powerful.

If we’re worried about adding another button to the spell roster, then do like Caithyra said and bake Cascade into PoM (not sure what to bake it into with Shadow but I’m sure there’s a good fit) with the Archon Hero talents. Or something… Please just not Halo… lol. Sigh.