Would it really have killed them to add coordinates to the base UI with the Dragonflight revamp?
3 Likes
This completely misses the entire point of a dps meter. You want to know how you stack up against people of the same spec and people of other specs. That information is necessary in order to gauge where you are at. It’s also important to know who is/isn’t pulling their weight. For example, if the group is having issues with dps not killing adds on a boss, it would be nice to know what dps is tunneling the boss and ignoring the adds.
If you’re worried about underperforming on the meters, it just means you should spend more time trying to improve and less time trying to hide that you’re bad
1 Like
Yes because this game has dps checks. Not maximizing your damage in raid at a mythic level means that damage has to be made up somewhere else.
When you’re on a limited time window to get ce the time spent on bosses matters especially when you don’t over gear the content.
Think shield checks like Raz, Tindral, Fyrak.
Think of it like the end of a PvP match, where you get a little blurb about how much you did.
BIG difference I’m suggesting here is: everyone on the list would be completely anonymous. You would only see your damage in relation to “other people”. That way, nobody could ever definitively know who was doing what (unless they’re running an addon, which is most likely the case anyways).
So if you’re in a 5man, at the end of the dungeon, the person to did #1 would know they did the most, the person who did #2 was second, and so on. No break down of abilities or anything that would allow other players to identify who did what.
The goal here is simply to give SOME basic benchmark for the player who is knew, but maybe wants to do better. Or maybe a player who thinks they’re doing fine, that “the game is just really hard”, and after doing a dungeon, they realize they’re the lowest damage.
At that point, no one else would know who is the lowest damage (according to the in-game window), but it would be up to the player if they want to do anything with that information.
Maybe just say “ah man, my damage is really low, I’m sorry guys”, and that might prompt the others to be like “all good man, maybe check out for a guide to get your damage up :)”
Or they might just be compelled to google “how do I do more damage?” and find the guides themselves.
But the fact is, as it stands now, if you’re only looking at the core game and what it provides, you really don’t even have context for how much damage you COULD be doing. You might just think that enemies are super strong, or if you’re running in groups, you might even be inclined to think “yeah man, I’m KILLING it!”. Or even just sort of wonder how you’re doing.
To me, these ideas would be relatively simple to add, but would just offer a BIT of information for the player who cares anything about doing something with that. And if they’re perfectly content doing less damage, then that’s totally cool! And maybe you don’t even show those anonymous damage reports until a player is max level, running Heroics or raiding (so the ultra-casual player doesn’t even have to think about their performance).
Again, it’s just a couple of ideas. As someone who’s developed pretty severe anxiety, I’m definitely very mindful of making sure that any systems added, aren’t just giving added ways to harass other players. The in-game community is already pretty toxic (or has been the past few years; I haven’t really played much this last year), so I tried to approach the idea with all that in mind.
from reading all that this is what I will paraphrase for you. “Please stop allowing people to see how bad my dps is when it should be anonymous”
Any REAL group is only as strong as it’s weakest member. The real groups / teams use the current dps meters to actually give feedback to anyone that might be struggling to learn a spec/rotation. I admit some elitist use it for “if you can’t do 500k you stink” type play styles, but even so they can just look at parses and see that you don’t know what’s going on.
1 Like
Imo, we need some real dps meters built in if adding anything in the direction–no anonymity.
An additional feature: if your dps is low af, war mode is automatically enabled for the next 30 days.
That’s the whole purpose of a meter.
If I look at my damage breakdown and see that I only casted 76 kill Commands but my co-hunter casted 105 I can see where I made mistakes and improve.
2 Likes
Technically we do have a dps meter in game. It shows us how much we hit for. It just doesn’t add it up for us like the addon does.
At this point we should just have them in game as a standard. Ff14 gets away with it because they said no addons from the beginning. But WoW is a different case the dps counter has been there since vanilla.
However I do think they should factor heals , dps and damage blocked on one line represented in 3 different colors. This will get us used to looking at total contribution rather than hyper focus on only one part of a role.
The higher difficulties require better performance, but you’re making an incorrect assumption by saying the “capable” players will leave.
My own experience was that I did heroic raiding at one point (during WoD)… but I simply did not find it fun. Not because I was bad or even a lack of progress.
It just was not fun for me.
It felt more like a job than something I enjoyed, so I slipped away from (organized) raiding entirely during Legion. Didn’t stop me from getting the artifact appearances from the Mage Tower either; including 5/6 (all except druid, didn’t have one) for the tanking challenge in particular.
Capability is rarely the reason for it.
It’s the desire to move up the difficulty ladder.
Anyhow, what you’re likely seeing is a split forming between progression-minded players wanting to go further and those who are content with where they are. Once the split happens, then you have attendance issues. Then you’re building up a team again, not to mention fostering camraderie with a different group; very few teams survive such splits, though the progression-minded who left generally are not as attached to such things; they gave it up to leave in the first place.
Just keep that in mind going forward. It’s less about lack of capability - something easily overcome if the motivation is there - and more about that desire to progress further.
At the end of the day? Not everyone cares about making their numbers bigger.
I mean, this character’s name isn’t fooling anyone.
I’m just back here for a visit as it is.
I’ve been playing since 2009, never a single addon.
I can’t really “improve” or find better talents/builds etc without a DPS meter
I don’t know if I am doing bad without a DPS meter
But if DPS is supposed to matter (why we have DPS checks) then it needs to be built into the game. Nobody should need a tool from an outside source to play this game effectively.
I just mash my buttons and hope for the best. Sometimes I see my DPS if someone else posts a meter in chat, or uploads logs. But typically I have no idea how well or bad I am playing.
I never knew how bad I was doing until in I downloaded a damage meter in burning crusade. It was eye opening heh.
Or just use Details like everyone else?
It’s not an assumption, it’s my experience. We’ve lost about 6 of our better DPS this expansion all with complaints along the lines of we let too much carry get by, don’t have standards, let people bring even lessor geared alts to raids.
Long discussion and debates about how to try bring people up, get them geared, and improve. Endless explanations of how to use things like WCL, damage meters, and WoWHead to figure out talent trees and rotations.
But we have an open door no standards policy. So nothing improves and people leave.
The solution is use one if you want, don’t if you don’t.
It’s that simple.
2 Likes
2 raids schedules help with that , normal raids for ppl that want to get AoTc for example and another on the weekend open for everyone (the raiders can bring an alt for this raids)
but yeah some1 ppl want to get carried and only want some free epic , if its weapon or trinket then perfect lol
We have trouble fielding a normal team these days. There was a time when we toyed with that idea back when we were more a casual progress guild, but we’re hard core casual now.
Which is all fine and well until they’re dying and the enemy isn’t. Which is when you refer to DPS meters to locate issues and hopefully work through them. This only applies to PvE though, I agree meters in PvP are bait.
No, just shut down the API and ban all mods.
WoW players really like performative professionalism in that, “Well the top raiding guild does X so we should do X!” thing when you’re not even close to that level of performance.
Mods in the hands of your average player are wasted and in most cases actively make them worse when they prioritize arbitrary numbers that do nothing to advance the raid over completing the raid. This progresses to the point that eventually people will actively work against their groups and sabotage progress so that they can parse slightly higher.
This is gratingly anti-social behavior and actively makes players worse at the game while making it not fun for everyone else.
1 Like
While the shields are DPS checks in one way, the ones that would likely stand out more are P3 running out of room on Raszageth, the last channel for Smolderon, running out of seeds on the final phase of Fyrakk, because the intermission DPS checks can go one way but if they fall behind in the marathon then it shows there’s a problem somewhere (usually people being dead).
While DPS meters play their part for something at-a-glance, comparing against your immediate peers may not always give the best means of judging how well one did. Like, a boss can die on heroic and a player could be 10~20k DPS above everyone in their raid group but compared to the average they might be 100k below others of their spec/gear level.
Details does help with having more information available like a breakdown of how many casts, how much damage was from what ability, etc, but usually would require working through logs in a lot of situations besides finding out simply “Need to prioritize pushing this button more.”
Lol FFXIV, scoff.
1 Like