Turning Every Female Major Lore Character Into a Villain

I really, really don’t appreciate how over the course of BFA, almost every single major female character who had been previously established has been portrayed as a Villain, especially with characters who it doesn’t at all fit with their backstory. Sylvanas is the prime example that everyone talks about, but the main point where she’s acting out of character is the fact that she’s acting like she doesn’t value the Forsaken at all. Literally every action she had taken in WoW over the previous expansions had been done to protect and ensure the survival of the Forsaken, so her suddenly flipping 180 degrees and not valuing their lives is super out of character.

However, Sylvanas is by far not the worst example of this growing trend in the Blizzard writing staff. Worse than Sylvanas by far is Y’rel in the Mag’har Allied race unlock. Taking Y’rel, who had previously been the key champion of hope for alternate Draenor, and had worked hand in hand with Durotan to help end the threats of the Iron Horde and subsequently Gul’dan’s Fel Horde and turning her into a villain is disgusting. And that’s before we even get into the fact that the Draenei have always been a Jewish parallel with their people being genocided without reason. So you take a strong female character who represented hope and is highly Jewish coded… and turned her into what’s essentially an anti-semitic character… that’s incredibly disgusting.

Now it seems Tyrande is going to be getting the same treatment at this rate, and frankly if it happens, I’m done with this game for good. It really boggles my mind how Blizzard’s current writing staff can go, ‘Oh hey, this female character who’s suffered massively, seeing almost her entire people get wiped out? Yeah, she’s evil now and you should hate her and want to kill her.’ It speaks to a level of ineptitude and a lack of understanding for good writing that is incredibly dangerous.

The most unfortunate thing is the irreparable damage that’s been done to a lot of theses characters that can’t possibly be fixed with a future expansion. It’s tragic really, as not all of BFA is bad… the small scale writing of Zandalar and Kul Tiras are actually pretty good, and the zones are fairly interesting with compelling conflicts between the local peoples. But the overarching War Campaign story, as well as what’s been written for a lot of the Allied Races is just bad.

I really wish Blizzard would hire a new head writer who understands the previously established lore and characters like Chris Metzen did. It’s unfortunate that Metzen caught so much flak back in the day when he was realistically the one making sure that all of WoW’s writing stayed consistent and was well constructed. I don’t want him to come back because I understand that the job was incredibly stressful for him, and it’s better for Metzen’s health if he stays retired as the head writer. But they really, really need to find someone who understands the universe on the same level as him and respects his established characters.

Ultimately, the only way that the damage Battle for Azeroth has done to the established lore and characters of the universe is if the entire War Campaign, and most of the Allied Race stories get flat out decanonized and excised from the game’s code. The expansion should realistically have had nothing to do with a faction conflict and should have instead focused on the South Seas. A lot of the patch content with Azshara and what I presume will be a Nyalotha follow up patch are fine and totally fit in, so those easily could have been kept.

The resources that were devoted to the War Campaign could have instead been focused on fixing the Heart of Azeroth system and making it a more compelling system. Instead of having the writers focus on destroying characters who were previously established, they could have worked to expand on the Heart of Azeroth story, having major events where you actually use it to help FIX stuff like it’s supposed to do. Say, have a huge wound in Azeroth that’s actually physically modelled into the world that you use the Heart of Azeroth to mend after empowering it, and it ACTUALLY fixes the ground instead of just being a sparkly effect on the ground that disappears.

Anyway, that’s my rant done with and out of the way. I have a lot of ideas on what Blizzard should do with future expansions moving forward, but unfortunately I don’t trust the current writing to manage anything resembling a compelling expansion story.

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You mean, besides the half-a-dozen or so that were introduced as the Allied Race leaders?

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Do you mean elf women? Because maybe then you’d have an argument.

As for the counter-argument… Jaina & Katherine Proudmoore, Taelia Fordragon, Calia Menethil, Celestine of the Harvest, Aysa Cloudsinger, Fareeya, Aggra, Thalryssa, Mayla Highmountain, Talanji, etc.

If you were expecting a character like Sylvanas who’s basically never been a good character, at least since her death, to break this supposed chain, she’s probably not the best place to look for that.

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:hammer:
Hit that nail on the head. Elves are loony. People say goblins are prone to self-destruction, but look at those guys! You can’t go ten minutes without exiling someone else or getting involved in a freak magical disaster!

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almost every single major female character who had been previously established has been portrayed as a Villain

Jaina, Talanji and Thalyssra seem fine, and they are major female characters. Moira’s been getting more morally sound too (kinda a bummer, I liked the schemer but not evil version of Moira)

There’s also minor characters like Katherine, Aysa, Taelia, Calia, Mayla, Fareeya, Aggra and the like who are all fine.

A few female characters going bad isn’t close to turning all, most or even half of the female characters bad.

I have to disagree. She valued their lives as far as they were useful to her.

The short story Edge of Night very clearly showed her opinion of the Forsaken; a tool to remain alive. An arrow in the quiver. It’s the short story that created that phrase.

She’s always used the Forsaken as a tool first and foremost. She didn’t want them to reunify with their living relatives through Calia cause she was afraid they’d leave her. She’s fine sacrificing their lives to stop her from going to hell.

There’s like one phrase where Anduin says she’s letting vengeance consume her. He said the same thing about Jaina and she recovered fine.

Let’s not blow things out of porportions. She is not at all close to what you are suggesting has happen.

Could happen in the future, but nothing has actually done so yet. I think you’re letting forum speculation cloud your judgement.

It’s Yrel, and honestly having a Light based villain is a good thing for the story. It being Yrel makes it tragic and sad. Fallen heroes can be good for a story.

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She ensured the survival of the Forsaken so that they could serve as a meat shield to protect her from dying and going to hell. Before that, they were her instrument of vengeance against the Lich King.

So, to refute your point entirely, she didn’t flip a 180 - as evidenced by literally every action she has taken since Cataclysm and Edge of Night.

I love Sylvanas and think she’s an amazing character, but I’m baffled those who once whitewashed her are now blaming Blizzard for poor writing instead of acknowledging they misunderstood what the character has always been.

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Talanji and jaina became villains this expansion???

Also, why is it important to you that they (which I guess are only Yrel, Tyrande, and Sylvanas…?) are female? Plenty of people said Kael’Thas was ruined as a character, but I don’t think anyone had a hissy fit because he was a dude.

As for Sylvanas, she’s always been a selfish person (well, since being killed by Arthas at least). You think she cared about all the people who died and became Forsaken for who they were and what their existences meant? She just wanted an army to take down Arthas. That’s also why she joined the Horde, more soldiers to throw at her enemy. That’s why she’ll experiment on, kill, or otherwise dispose of anyone who crosses her, forsaken, Horde, Alliance, etc.

Tyrande’s story isn’t finished. Even taking into account what the devs said about her revenge being fulfilled, it’s not like she will suddenly become a static and unimportant character. She’s still around, she’s still got the Night Warrior mojo going, there are many directions to take her part of the story.

Yrel’s part is a mess because they’re working with WoD content, and half of that was cut out, the other half was mangled and spit out into the worst expansion the game has ever seen.

But, putting that aside, why is it okay for a heroic character like Arthas to fall into a tragic villain role, but not Yrel? If the only argument in your wheelhouse is the Jewish comparison then I think you’re applying a little bit too much of the real world into the game. But even if that was important, it’s not like this is an entirely unheard of thing either: Magneto is a Jewish supervillain, and he’s one of Marvel’s best characters!

Calm down. The overarching story of BFA was a mess, but you’re really just pushing an agenda with that title and dubious claims of misogynistic writing.

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Thankfully you’re not in charge of the story.

BfA has had some of the best lore in WoW’s history outside the polarizing war campaign, so either you’re trolling or just oblivious to the hyperbole in your OP.

Sylvanas was always a villain.

The fan base hated Yrel anyways so they decided to make her the first Draenei villain in WoW’s history - a decision I quite frankly agree with.

I’m not sure what your point is beyond that, other than trolling (and in that case bravo).

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I love how people A. didn’t actually read my post, and assumed I was saying Jaina, Talanji, ect were also villains despite the fact that I didn’t at all reference them in the slightest in my post and B. ignored the fact that I said I really enjoyed some of the smaller scale writing in BFA like the Zandalar and Kul Tiras stories. But good work, immediately jumping down my throat without paying attention to what I actually wrote.

I was actually planning to add an addition to this when I came back from being AFK to say that I actually thought Jaina was pretty well written and should be an example of how female characters who should be written to the rest of the staff. But it’s amazing to me how quickly this devolved into people assuming I was trolling.

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On the contary; you did. Indirectly.

“Every major Female lore character into a villain.” That was your title. Then in your post you said “Almost every single female character” in the first sentance.

When people were pointing those characters out, it was because you were said almost every female character was being portrayed villainously. People were bringing up Jaina, Talanji, Thalyssra, etc because that statement is false; it’s a small number of female characters being portrayed that way. Most aren’t.

If you don’t like those few female characters being villainous, sure, go ahead. But your post insinuated that it was a wider problem with the story at hand. It’s not, most female characters are fine.

This isn’t a case of people not reading your post, it’s a case of you overblowing your point by saying “Every female character” and “Amost every female character”.

If you didn’t want people to assume you meant almost every female character, then why did you phrase your post and title that way?

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Tyrande will never be seen as a villain by anyone with some common sense though.

Getting justice for your people against those that genocided them is completely justified, and I’d love to see that.

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For those saying Jaina seems fine, she was a villain formthe Horde at the start of the expansion, right up until after the siege of Dazar-alor. I know a lot of the story was dropped that made her less sympathetic since most Alliance character just visit crazy town instead of taking up residence there like Horde characters do, but Jaina has been represented as more than a Little unhinges in the game since Teldrassil. Just because you’re meant to understand and sympathize with her that doesn’t mean it isn’t still weird characterization for her to go from being a peace-monger, to out for the blood of horde women and children, to being a peace monger again.

Blizzard seems to think blood thirst is just something you can turn on and off if they do enough terrible things to a character and they love doing terrible things to their female characters most of all.

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Tell that to Daelin.

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Does anyone still think that Daelin was a villain though? He was completely right after all

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I suppose it depends on whether you think being vindicated after the fact makes your actions justified.

Imagine Jaina goes villain.

Lol, Blizzard HQ would be set on fire by the angry fans.

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is not weird, it is clear that the reason why she didn’t go that route was because she was literally rescued of darkness by her family and nation. that entire kultiran story was about redemption and unity.

In the alpha she was more super more agressive but in live it was way more calm.

As for thread, i disagree with you.
Simply because every single major villain in wow has been male until now.

Look at the allied races, all of them female characters.
Mayla,talanji,jaina,alleria,geyarah,fareeya.

We got taelia,katherine,lucille waycrest. ect.

with all due respect i don’t think thay you payed attention to sylvana’s characterization.

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The point is she was on that path, for quite some time, and then in this expansion there was a concerted effort to roll her back to being a peace longer again.

I’m assuming this was addressed to OP since this wasn’t a stance I adopted.

yes it was, i am sorry for the confusion.

I apologize for not having much in the way of constructive comments on the rest of your post, but this and Yrel in particular I disagree with. Pre-Cata Sylvanas? Yeah, I would probably agree with ya! But Post-Icecrown Sylvanas… That was a huge shift in her character development, and it stopped being about vengeance or justice. Maybe I’m wrong, but ever since the Silverpine Forest stuff in Cataclysm I never felt that she was the same.

And to be fair, though! She’s a villain to you, to me, and to many members of the Horde, but she’s not a universally evil character. The Lich King was a villain, he wanted to drown the world in death, and EVERYBODY was against him. Sylvanas may be unscrupulous, but she does have a plan. She always has a plan. We can bank on that.

Since draenei are one of my favorite parts of WoW, that is not at all my interpretation of any part of their composition. I don’t equate them to RL tragedies based on the common-ground of falling victim to horrible things like that. If that’s the case, then ancient trolls are in the same boat at the hands of ancient night elves - and we know what that implies about night elves, which is demonstrably false. But, anyway, that could be a whole other thread on its own and I’ve already veered off-topic. I just found it an interesting perspective and wanted to share my own. Moving on.

Regarding Yrel, I don’t think we’ve seen the last of her and I certainly don’t believe she will persist as a villain. Right now, Yrel is in prime position to create a controversial focal point in the story once she’s pulled back into the main narrative. The Void is encroaching, let alone whatever this looming Death with a capital D business post-N’zoth, we’re going to need allies after this war and we’re going to be desperate.

She’s the modern-day Draenor’s Scarlet Crusade on steroids, and I think she’ll get a redemption arc before she’ll be a raid boss.

Very quickly on Tyrande; she’ll never be a villain. She WILL be complicated, but she’ll never be a villain. I’m very confident in that.

That’s my two-cents, anyway.

~Maddie

Edit: Spellcheck, and clarification.

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