Turn Slice and Dice into Class Passive

Classes Rogue
1

and give us a more meaningful Spender/Finisher ability in its place, or just rework SnD entirely. (see edit section for elaboration).

  1. Maintenance chore ability that is mandatory for energy regen as the gameplay feels relatively terrible without said energy regen

  2. CP requirement makes this mandatory chore button now also a wind-up before being able to DPS, thus making the class gameplay feel less fluid and fun in both PvE and PvP

  3. Selecting PvP talents to alleviate the inconvenience that SnD is, is not an appropriate solution since I have to sacrifice the way I want to play and the optimal talents for any given PvP scenario (arena comp) to accommodate this self-fix for an outdated ability.

  4. The attack speed and energy regen are mandatory tho…

So just make it a class passive ability. This shouldn’t affect balance much, if at all, since it’s an ability that is kept up 24/7 in combat anyway.

Edit:
Users in this thread have brought up a concern with turning SnD into a class passive, that concern being rogues would have one less finisher to spend CP on. Presuming the Builder → Spender is a core design philosophy of rogues and Blizzard has no intention of pulling rogues away from this design philosophy (which is fine), this concern is actually one that supports the notion of replacing SnD. To further explain the issue at hand, for this Builder → Spender mechanic/design philosophy to be effective, our finisher options must be impactful. We must be faced with decisions to choose amongst meaningful finishers, thus making it feel like we actually have a decision in how to rotate and play our class and overall giving weight to this design philosophy. Of course then, if a finisher (SnD case example) feels both mandatory and lacks impact then no one is ever really going to enjoy spending CP on it, and the efficacy of this builder → spender design philosophy is undermined. Turning SnD into a passive and giving rogues a more meaningful and engaging spender/finisher works to address our concerns and make rogue more engaging via meaningful decision-making. Alternatively, others have suggested some variations of reworks to SnD to make it engaging and impactful. In any case, the consensus is clear, that SnD in its current state is not a satisfying finisher and doesn’t really contribute to rogue game play beyond being a mandatory maintenance button.

-Please continue to comment with your input or suggestions (or position) on this matter. It is important that this discussion gains traction. I get the feeling that most people are in agreement with the general points made in this thread concerning the current state of SnD and its impact (or lack thereof).

25 Likes
2

I agree, this needs to go. Button bloat is out of control. Keybinds need reduced by about 50% for every class

12 Likes
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I don’t know about 50%…. Maybe 10%

5 Likes
4

It doesnt even feel bad to press for sub anymore, wdym button bloat.

2 Likes
5

Doesn’t matter about button bloat, this ability needs to be removed regardless. Completely pointless just mandatory GCD wasted.

7 Likes
6

If you really feel it’s a “wasted” GCD, just don’t put it on your bar. No one has a gun to your head.

What I think you mean is, 'I don’t like using it, it doesn’t seem to be that good, and I don’t want to use it, but I also don’t want to even be at the slightest disadvantage so no one else should be able to use it if I don’t either."

5 Likes
7

sounds like skill issue

4 Likes
8

I agree. WoW player count is down and keybinds are crazy. It should be kept to a number than can also work on a controller easily.

3 Likes
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While you have my sympathies as a shaman, even something like a steamdeck only has 12 buttons. Classes have, probably on average 30 keybinds. If you want to “easily” be able to play wow on a controller, you’re talking about a level of pruning and streamlining that would make the last great pruning look like a trim by comparison.

Not to mention the assumption that wow’s player count is down precisely because of button bloat, which I think has virtually 0 chance of being the case. Even if somehow this was the case, you’d have to imagine you’d lose as many people as you may gain back by making such a massive change to class kits.

10/10 if troll.

2 Likes
10

edit: [removed - pointless]

1 Like
11

abilities that dont do dmg themselves when you press them shouldnt be on gcd.

im thinking about SnD and RtB

the logic for BF being on gcd is that it does initial dmg when you press it isnt it?

either give snd and rtb initial dmg when pressed or remove from gcd.

7 Likes
12

Agreed, I don’t get why they brought it back in SL, but the button bloat this expansion is real, they need to do some sweeping changes like they are doing to paladins right now.

1 Like
13

It’s not mandatory. You can choose not to use it. By your own admission it’s “completely pointless.”

So which is it? Pointless and useless? Or mandatory? You can’t have it both ways.

2 Likes
14

I’ve seen some stupid logic in this forum but this beats everything lol.

5 Likes
15

Let me clarify that for you once-and-for-all.

This skill is pointless (or rather this ability has a point - which is to make gameplay worse) in that it has a negative effect on the fluidity and enjoyability of rogue gameplay and DPS rotation (for both PvE and PvP). In PvE, it’s a major inconvenience that requires you to “ramp up” your dps. In small packs/mobs it’s absolutely awful gameplay design because by the time the player has made a few attacks and gained enough CP to expend on SnD the trash pack/mob is already nearing being cleared. In PvP, this skill is awful gameplay because not only is it just a GCD waster, but it’s also a source of drain on energy and combo points. Instead of getting on with my opener or rotation, I need to waste multiple seconds of gameplay just ensuring that this chore ability remains maintained and up - and I need to do this constantly throughout a fight.

So now that’s clarified, let’s look at what we receive as players in return for dealing with this maintenance/chore ability… Oh we get nothing… - Just more numbers on our screen of course from faster basic attacks, but yeah otherwise, it doesn’t do anything to our gameplay. There are no interesting interactions with this ability, and it doesn’t create any kind of interesting gameplay or effect. Yet, the increased DPS and energy regen makes it mandatory in that you’d just be handicapping yourself if you took it off your action bars.

A terrible skill that needs to just be a rogue passive or receive some kind of major rework otherwise to make it something other than an annoying chore that disrupts the flow of rogue dps rotation in both PvE and PvP.

2 Likes
16

Because energy regeneration for all 3 rogues is effing trash without fast attack speed.

Shadow techniques does not proc quickly without SND which still is poop with SND.

Assassination and Combat also have similar interactions. Energy regen is garbage without it.
SND stays simply die to that. Don’t dig it? Take it iff your bars boys and quit stripping us of stuff.

You tap it very few times anyway as is boys. Premeditation , Cut to the Chase, Control is king, whatever the frick combat’s version is all (something with roll and something else).

Damage goes higher because of increased enchant procs / trinket procs, increased auto attack damage by a good bit, energy regen coming in for more attacks.

They nerfed all our other energy regen hard and hooked up feral who has all 3 rogue tools. If you’re going to shake a fist and be pissed, do it at ferals.

That’s the same reason garrote, deadly throw, expose armor, hemorrhage, sanguinary vein disappeared.

Rogues argued on “i shUd bE bEtTeR aT dIs, i NeEd IdEnTitY to Be SpesHul”

Now we are all formers of ourselves due to sabotage within and outside.

They nerfed stuns and all CC , ret gained another, dks/ paladins also blind on shorter cd and can whoop your butt in it.

Ferals have the exact same amount of cc and do ape damage to everything.

Rogue gained nothing but gimmicks to rely on.

5 Likes
17

This is exactly the problem. It’s mandatory for no other reason than being designed as a mandatory ability. Usually, in such a case, the ability should be relegated as passive. When we say to remove it, we obviously arent implying that we receive nothing in return and ultimately suffer low energy regen. Instead, we mean to rework it into a passive or something allot more engaging and fluid in game play.

3 Likes
18

Slice and Dice is just tedious. Change the Assa talent to give 3 seconds per combo point of envenom rather than refresh and itll be much better. Free me from another thing to do at the start of the fight and an awkward keybind.

6 Likes
19

Then be specific instead of acting like other parts of the class forums where they lack rational thought or organized feedback.

We are rogues, not lesser creatures. Lets act like it.

Unfortunately they probably won’t improve our situation because people simply burst stitches about rogues. All of our passives in all 3 rogues were nerfed to slow us down while ferals gained all of it.

4 Likes
20

first time I see engaging gameplay = press less buttons.