tbh i hope fel barrage gets nerfed to uselessness that talent is so boring to use
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Healers run oom super fast though. Iâd say stopping the healer from getting a drink would be the obvious thing to do
Idk about other healers, but pres with energy loop and druid with master shapeshifter probably wouldnât need to drink if given ample leeway to play offensive. Idk I donât play 3s but mana doesnât seem too big of a problem for some specs until dampening sticks a bendy straw in you and sucks your mana dry
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Healers run oom because of dampening forcing them to use mana faster.
Maybe you arenât paying attention to the healer sipping on drinks during the match. Canât drink in shuffle
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And you realize there was no dampening 10+ years ago right? Nothing mattered. Dampening is a bandaid for trying to fix the problem which clearly they havenât ever been able to do.
Im not exaggerating when I say almost every negative change is a change caused by healers and their requirement role in content. Its not only applicable to PvP, they do this to stuff to like PvE tanks who want to be self sufficient but then they nerf them because then you get blood dk/prot paladin metas where you can M+ without a healer (which is much more fun but different topic.)
Early PvP days and arena days the way you balanced healers was that you had very long possible CC chains and minimal healing overtime outside of resto druids (who has very poor spot healing against burst tho). Healing doesnt matter when they cant play the game.
Additionally early on mortal wounds was extremely aggressive at 50% which was then nerfed heavily overtime iirc even going down as low as 10% at one point.
Dampening exist today because of gradual gameplay buffs over time directed at making the healing role more âfunâ and accessible causing them to be inherently overloaded by design.
BFA early and mid was the peak result of buffing healers where you got like resto shamans who could literally AFK in ghost wolf and passively outheal any DPS without dampening in effect. BFA was also the most peak period of time when the game was at its most boring.
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I would strickly blame the over importance of CDs which was caused by pvers.
To many of them and to much power baked into them.
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Over importance of CDs is initially caused because of PvP not PvE. CD stacking was never ever important in PvE pre MoP outside of (iirc) 2 major fights being Sinestra and Spine of Deathwing.
PvE just adapted to the model in tandem because pressing flashy cool buttons is well, cool.
In OG Wotlk, a new hunter build started to crop up somewhere in the middle that was a hybrid of BM + MM where you took beastial wrath plus readiness and would have 2 beastial wraths back to back. This was nerfed and the interaction was broken SPECIFICALLY, because it was OP in PvP. They didnt care about its burst potential in PvE.
Just to use as an example.
See i highly disagree with that point because pve has always been the balancing priority it has not once in the 15ish years i have been playing been pvp. OFC that being said if something is gamebreaking in pvp they will nerf it but its usually specificly nerfed in pvp
Its always been an afterthought. The over reliance of CDs stems from pve and because regardless of the games health its more fun to âpress big button see big numbersâ
this is such a bad player playing the game wrong take
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Elaborate please, wasnt aware this was a âtakeâ and rather just a reciting of what actually has happened in the past and even recently.
Through our recent testing, weâve determined that the damage done to tanks needs to be increased. While weâre thrilled that players are enjoying playing tanks in Dragonflight and want the role to be healthy, there are some negative effects that can come from tanks being too strong, that we want to avoid. We want healers to play a key role in keeping tanks alive, and tanks shouldnât be able to easily solo large portions of encounters after the rest of their group have died.
the take is that itâs more fun / a better version of the game to play without a healer
youâre a complete idiot if you read that and were confused
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Fun is subjective sure, but it seems most of the comments, which I would assume are from tank players, are negative. I can pull from other periods of time aswell, but whats your claim that says its more fun with healers?
Maybe try using your big boy words and make a post without an insult if you wanted to have a conversation?
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playing without a healer is only ever functionally possible when either
-
the damage isnât high enough to ever be punishing
-
the content is tuned far too trivially not only numarically but mechanically
if youâre having fun in that scenario itâs because youâre a bad player enjoying the game being exploited
PvP obviously a bit different but 0 healer gameplay is black and white
itâs
- 1 male elf rets / upright orc dks running in pressing every cd and mashing 111121112 until one team randomly loses
0 mechanical depth or skillcap
OR
- 2 reset comps utilizing a high skillceiling to minimize the damage they take while maximizing the damage they deal in extremely short engages
1 would be basically every single game which is such a low quality boring version of the game
2 has a high skillceiling and would be the extreme minority and only realistically available to maybe 6 of the 40 specs in game
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Weâre onto 2 different topics so lets wrap up the initial PvE claim you wanted to debunk and then move back to PvP
Just as a quicker TLDR, this was after the initial rework of paladin in 10.1 where even prot paladin was clearly overtuned. This strategy was primarily utilized by higher caliber players because its just more punishing than having a healer. The reason it worked well is because as I stated before, self sufficiency as a tank is fun, and M+ damage outputs (at the time at least) are largely telegraphed and also largely avoidable if you play perfectly. Its not that damage isnt tuned to be punishing, its just designed to be avoided.
Because tank sustain will continue to get buffed in an ever constant fight against healer enjoyment, the only other thing for healers to heal is the group, and if the group has enough off healing and gameplay sense to avoid most damage/use proper mitigation, the need for a healer lessens as the best healing is actually just killing things faster to begin with (4 dps).
This also occured during legion when blood dks could give the entire group leech via their artifact ability.
Going fast and going big is a classic recipe for fun to most PvE DPS players. I know fun is subjective but I dont think even you can argue that isnt the case. So no, its not just bad players enjoying the game being exploited, because bad players are not the ones who could usually utilize this strategy effectively.
Not sure what this has to do against what I said though which is why im asking you to elaborate what point you specifically disagree with and why.
This is already the reality for like 90% of the PvP playerbase especially those who use RSS as the primary avenue to competitive PvP.
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enjoyment is subjective
but itâs a worse version of the game even if a niche minority thinks itâs quirky the same way a niche minority of morons think tanks in arena are quirky
thereâs a large segment of people who are going to do the most effective thing available to them regardless of enjoyment and thatâs all tank/4dps or tank in arena is
both are out of the scope of intended design and both are a lesser form of gameplay that donât serve as âchoicesâ instead as exploitation
read it again if youâre stupid
itâs their perception, not their reality
people feeling completely anchored by healers are doing a poor job playing their own character and need something to blame it on
if itâs not healers itâs going to be that dk has 5 trinkets and ret has 4 immunities making them unlosable titans in 30 second all dps 3v3 rounds
Heres your initial reply. I posted a link to an article reinforcing what I said through blizzards official statement. Having high self sustain as a tank player in PvE isnt a niche quirky minority preference like playing a tank in PvP is. Its why blizzard supports it and dont support tanks in PvP. Your personal opinion if its lesser gameplay or not matters just as little as my own. What matters is that tank players as a collective have expressed this is what they like/dont like as a majority.
Trying but you typed something that doesnt make a lick of sense even with context, you just wanted to be edgy for your dopamine hit of 2-4 upvotes, for what idk.
You said:
This isnt a perception, this is the reality of most low mmr games RSS games. I didnt make it that way.
True, but who do we blame the 30-50 minute RSS queues on? I think more people are irritated they need to wait almost an hour just to play one game rather than the performance of a random healer they will never meet again.
the only statement that matters is that they go out of their way to fix the game being played without healers
(they do)
link whatever thinkpiece or wowhead article written by some irrelevant 16 key pugger making $4 for their contribution
irrelevant
healer mmr