LFR should basically be a faceroll. Progressively add mechanics to normal+. Go and look at some of the SL fights (eg Sylvanas, even Fatescribe or Kel’Thuzad). What were you thinking? There are 3 phases. There are different mechanics in each phase. There are different abilities in each phase. These LFR encounters are more complicated than anything that was ever in Classic. And people like Classic raids.
Yet every time this is brought up, some people who derive their sself-worth from WoW accomplishments inevitably pipe up and say “LFR shouldn’t be a faceroll” or “WoW needs to be harder”. The participation rates in raids should tell a sobering story about what players actually want.
Do you remember why LFR was added? It was to give players a taste of raiding. Putting 25 strangers toegether and expecting them to do “die if you get them wrong” mechanics in a 3 phase fight is not “a taste of raiding”. YOu want that? Go and do heroic/mythic prog.
So let me give you some design guidelines you should stick to for LFR:
- No instant death mechanics. At all. Ever;
- You get 2 mechanics maximum per fight;
- Half the bosses should have 1 mechanic maximum;
- 2 phases maximum per fight. If there are 2 phases, 1 should just be spanking the boss.
I’m going back and doing some legacy raids for achievements and honestly for SL and later raids I’ll do them once and never again. At least until you can one shot the bosses like in Legion raids. Considering we’re still waiting for that in BFA raids, it may be awhile.
26 Likes
Easy and boring are two very different things
And you think your opinion on current content matters why?
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I think LFR has determination for that reason. If it is too hard, it becomes easier the next time you try it.
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The difficulty of vanilla raids weren’t the encounter’s mechanics. It was the getting 40 peoples together at the same time and place, assigning tasks and hoping there was 10 peoples in there that would not screw it up!
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Couldn’t we just not want a faceroll because we don’t find facerolls as fun?
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Isn’t lfr already face roll? Did it tuesday with zero issue.
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I mean, does it really matter how many mechanics there are if you can ignore most of them?
LFR does only have 1 or 2 mechanics per fight….that you need to know or care about at all.
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Um… what?
If you want fights like this, go fight a training dummy.
Like way to remove all the difficulty, challenge and nuance from fights.
Exactly.
Fights like Razageth are fun. They also aren’t hard.
What makes them hard are people refusing to learn the fights, wanting to just stand there and patchwerk, just showing up for loot.
Like last week. LFR raz. I put markers down for puddles, explained them. Put markers down for sides AND made groups, called the groups several times. Put a marker for p3 transition.
First pull, half the raid goes flying off. I have to solo it to the timer mark for determination stack. Second pull a few more made it, then lost another half when I called sides and they just chased raz.
Next pull, made it to the next platform. First wind, a bunch get blown off even though I was spamming RW to go to middle.
On the kill I was spamming do not stand with tanks and avoid beams. People got hit with beams. It ended with 5 of us alive.
And unfortunately that’s most raz weeks for me, because I’m still farming the mount. It’s a slog every week.
It’s not hard. People make it hard by not listening.
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LFR is really easy for all fights if people know whats going on. Im a proponent of having all raid difficulties having the same mechanics for all fights but just decreasing the punishment for mechanic failures on lower difficulties. This way you can practice the mechanics for harder content without the repeated wipes.
2 Likes
Scrolling up…
From. LFR. There are 3 other difficulties that can become progressively more difficult. Why do so many people have trouble grasping this?
LFR Razageth is a textbook example of unforgiving, instant death, many mechanics and many phases that has no place in LFR. You want all that explanation and learning and progression? Great. Go and do normal+. Raid participation is so low because of this attitude. Why do you feel the need to inflict Raz on LFR as well as Normal, Heroic and Mythic? Go and make some friends. Join a guild. Torture them. The game shouldn’t be designed around people who can’t make friends and want to inflict “hard” raids on PUGs.
You mean “raiders”? I’m sure it is. LFR isn’t meant to be a challenge. It is meant as an entry point.
That’s way too much for inexperienced raiders. Higher tiers should add mechanics.
1 Like
That’s exactly what it is. Imagine doing lfr and then doing normal mode just to be surprised by the additional phases and mechanics.
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LFR difficulty is fine, fights like Raszageth which are mechanically a pain are an outlier.
Blizzard definitely learnt from that particular fight since Fyrakk is a mechanically painful fight but every single painful mechanic was moved in LFR.
4 Likes
And LFR shouldn’t be stand there and hit a thing.
That defeats the point of a raid.
It should be THE RAID, with slightly less mechanics and stuff. And that’s exactly what it is.
It boggles my mind people think lfr shouldn’t have any kind of difficulty and shouldn’t be the learning raid…
Like do you even hear yourself?
6 Likes
It’s definitely an outlier. But I feel a lot of fights should be a bit more like their norm+ selves.
A lot of lfr fights are just straight up boring because not enough happens.
I do feel like the dream raid did a good job of keeping mechanics and difficulty, aside from fyraak. Him I could literally solo tank. Take all 4 stacks and watch my health barely drop.
Idk. Fights like raz maybe could be brought down a little like making puddles bigger, making the push back slower. But straight up removing mechanics like op is talking… definitely the wrong direction.
5 Likes
Season of Discovery is that way.
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GoldenEye and Perfect Dark had a good difficulty system. Higher difficulty meant more objectives but level times didn’t get that much longer.
I think it’s dumb that these days all companies only ever come up with is make enemies bigger bullet sponges and make you get hurt more. I don’t want raid bosses that take 10-15 minutes to kill. That’s exhausting, physically and mentally. Especially if you’re progressing on it to so you have to do this for weeks.
I dunno, bosses are already falling over within 3 mins this week.
I know this, because I didn’t get to use CA twice in a single fight.
They are only going to get easier, too.
Edit: Actually I lie, I think I got to pop CA twice on Sark.
1 Like
No,
LFR was added because of gatekeeping, so that everyone could see the story.
Nah,
classic raids were difficult, as addons did not play the game for you and you actually needed to be aware of what was happening. A lot of CC was necessary, positioning and mana management.
Good luck doing the 4 horsemen with 10 people… 
1 Like