True End Game Delve Concept - Tier 12 Delve (Heroic Track loot from bountiful delves, Mythic Track Vault)

I love delves but I feel like they fall off at a certain point in the end game. I also love to play M+ but sometimes finding/pugging for them is a challenge. I love that Delves can be 1-5 players, because if me and my buddy want to run PVE content we can do delves in a fun an engaging way. What I wish for delves is that they have like a Tier 12 that drops guarenteed loot at the end of a bountiful delve, and maybe even have 8 bountiful tier 12 delves give mythic track loot in the vault. That way Delves can complete with mythic plus/raids as an endgame activity. I would love for a tier 12 to be as challenging as a tier 10 or mythic raid. It would give me and my buddy a way to work together as a duo to complete truly challenging content for a chance at Mythic track gear. And help us gear up to full heroic track. I’m open ideas/general discussion. I just hope maybe to see delves become something that I can do as a duo that is just as rewarding as mythic raiding/tier 10 M+. If its a possibility that it could be gear exploited towards the race to world first, maybe make tier 12 delves open up after the race to world first is over. Please let me know what you all think about this, and shout out if there is any other delve lovers like me.

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The problem is creating content of comparable difficulty whilst keeping things within the framework of what delve players want them to be.

Two major aspects of WoW’s difficulty are collective responsibility and a focus on optimisation. Delves as solo content don’t have the design space necessary for the mechanical complexity, and the lack of time pressure / focus on the content being doable as any spec removes the ability to tune content around a need to optimise.

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You make great points, I just wish there was the ability for good solid PVE content for duo players. kind of like how you can do rated BG Blitz as a duo with a healer and still earn conquest points towards getting the best gear for PvP. I wish PVE had that option for those of us who cant always get into a 5 man group for an m+ or invited to heroic or mythic raids. Plus delves not having a time requirement while also being able to be completed in a short amount of time has been amazing for a casual player like me. Chalange modes back in WOD i think used to be like 3 man scenarios that could be completed with any combination of specs. Maybe they could have a PVE mode like that. Thats why I was saying perhaps delves could be the solution.

I think thats a great idea. A couple things I would add to make them more challenging and worthy of Mythic Track vault would be toggled Challenges.

By that I mean you can still run regular T12 Delves for the regular rewards given. But to get Myth Track Vault you would have to toggle 2+ challenges

For instance:

  • Flawless. No deaths for the entire run
  • Stun Immunity. All enemies cannoy be stunned or CCd but can still be interrupted
  • Death Bombs. When certain enemies die they explode in AoE damage
  • Extra Normal Enemies.
  • Extra Elite Enemies and less normal enemies
  • whatever else

Nothing to extreme but something to make them a bit tougher. As stated, you cab still run them normally without picking any challenges, but you would get the regular rewards.

If it were me, instead of simply adding more enemies, I would like to see more variety in enemy attack patterns.

Maybe some tier 12 fungal enemies can grow fungi that, if not destroyed, will deal huge aoe and buff the pack. If you’re a dps, you can dps it down. If you’re a healer, you can use an item on it that makes it healable, and then ‘heal it down’. If you’re a tank, you can use mitigation cooldowns to survive the blast and get the buff yourself.

Maybe some tier 12 Kobalds can place down a set of candles that must be snuffed within a few seconds by walking over each of them, while others can pull/push you around. Other Kobalds can cast a flamethrower that spins 360 degrees, or pull flames from nearby that you have to stand in between.

Maybe some tier 12 Kobyss can resurrect their fallen allies, while others get a stacking damage buff every time they hit you or Brann. If you don’t have cc to cc the ramper, you can kill it first and interrupt the necro. If you don’t have an interrupt, you can kill the necro first and then use a special mechanic that deals damage to the ramper based on its stacks. If there’s 2 necros in the same pack, you’ll need to get creative… but maybe there’s a special mechanic that can help you split damage between them both if they’re positioned correctly?

The point is, to make Delves harder, they should have more mechanics that you need to consider in each fight: More things you need to interrupt; more things you need to dodge or jump over; more things you need to burst down; more things you need to position carefully; more things you need to use special mechanics unique to that delve to handle. Because not all classes can interrupt or burst things down, they could add selectable tools that can give those abilities in specific situations, like a curio that Brann can use that you can then activate by clicking him which silences all casts nearby, or a different curio that lets you paint a target on an enemy for Brann to burst down for you.

In my mind, the difficulty of raids, for individual players, is in knowing the mechanics of the given boss and being in the right place at the right time or attacking/healing the right target at the right time. The difficulty of PvP is in knowing what your opponent can do and strategizing to use the right skills at the right moments. The problem with Delves is that most of the gameplay is just killing mobs. CC, interrupts, even kill order aren’t really that important, and in most cases you can just stand there and ignore what the mobs are doing. Going up in tiers just adds more damage and hp to the mobs, not more actual difficulty. Even the bosses usually only have one or two mechanics, and that, in my opinion, hurts the fun :slight_smile:

The year is 2032. You are farming T43 delves for artificer track gear. Brann still tells you to stop stepping in webs. Raids and M+ are non existant, dead artifacts not bothered to enjoy by any living players. Blizzard has released over 212 delves but no companions but Brann. Brann is life and life is Brann.