Can someone please clarify what the trolls think of Undeath?
There are speakers in the Terrace of Speakers who make disparaging comments regarding undeath. And the Shadow Hunter quest line also positions Talanji and company being overly wary of undeath.
I say overly because over the years, we have seen trolls have few or no qualms regarding reanimation, spirits, sacrificing, undeath and so on.
What am I missing? (My troll lore sucks)
Hard to be 100% sure, so the following is probably largely speculative, but oftentimes troll-created undeath has seemed to come across less like forcibly reanimating the dead, and more like coaxing the dead to willingly return for a time to aid their living kin before retiring to the hereafter once more.
Hence the Farraki raise their dead to basically shore up their dwindling numbers, while the mummified dead of various tribes (those not slain and raised as Scourge) have been shown to rise up in defense of their peoples’ sacred places. Conversely, the undeath of the Scourge is considered monstrous, that of various Zandalari liches encountered around Zandalar amassing undead armies is seen as abominable, and Zanzil’s creation of undead mindslaves with his potions was considered monstrous and unnatural by the rest of the Gurubashi. Seemingly “proper” troll undead aren’t just husks animated and enslaved like Scourge; what makes it tolerable is if they’re literally dead trolls who’ve been “convinced” to return and be themselves again (albeit physically undead) for a while.
Consequently while we see such undead in the form of trolls, we don’t really see trolls practicing the reanimation of their enemies, likely because doing so would be wrong, as it wouldn’t amount to the same thing as entreating willing cooperation from their own dead.
I get the sense that undeath in and of itself is less a problem for them than the perpetually sustained undeath that usually accompanies necromancy. Troll undead come across as a result not of necromancy as a “school” of magic, but as voodoo/faith/nature-based rituals. When the dead come back for a short while to aid their brethren it’s “natural” because they go back where they belong once their task is done. Balance is maintained; the dead go back to being dead, rather than being suspended forever in the living world. The unnatural side of undeath comes in with the forms of it that create persistent unliving minions who are forced to remain in the living world with no intention of letting them rest again, be they compelled by the trauma of their passing to linger or shackled in undeath by dark magics.
Long story short, game mechanics often slap the “undead” classification on things, but it’s possibly only really undeath of the unholy and reviled sort when it’s preventing the dead from going to the afterlife.
So creating thralls from the souls of the fallen = bad
Calling upon the dead to lend a hand and then go back to their rest = not necessarily bad.
Depends on what Loa they pay reverence to. For those that worship Bwonsamdi (like the Darkspear and the Zandalari) undeath (or specifically necromancy) is something that is looked pretty negatively on. This is because it infringes on Bwon’s domain, and denies him the souls he’s due. HE (and his priests) are allowed to apparently utilize undead, but that’s because they are his to do with as he wishes; provided he holds up his end of the bargain and looks after them in the afterlife.
Trolls that don’t particularly heed Bwon (like MANY of the other troll tribes, but especially the Farakki; who worship Mueh’zala by the sounds of things) seem to be a bit more fine with the prospect of undeath and necromancy. This same thing applies to the topic of Blood Magic (which is condemned pretty heavily by the Zandalari and Darkspear, but is used heavily by other tribes … especially those that worship Hakkar; like several factions of the Gurubashi).
In the series of quests to liberate the port from the Mogu, you specifically aid a priest of Bwonsamdi in raising the spirits of the dead to fight for you. Trolls are fine with it on their terms, and when handled by the systems that govern their religious connection to death and life.
troll attitude as a whole is probably looking down on undeath, with the notable exception of the farraki, who are necromancers.
Hey thanks for this detailed answer. It really answers everything, including another question that popped up while I was doing the Shadow Hunter quest line which was the Lich King referring to his domain as for the “damned”.
Am I right in assuming that that’s where the damned portion comes in - that they are forced to serve and be undead forever and against their will?
On a related note, I just did a couple Horde quests in the Hinterlands and a Forsaken there remarks on enjoying working with the Forest Trolls there because “they’ve been speaking to the dead for hundreds of years before the Forsaken even existed”.
Well that’s at the very least how the Scourge started out: as the dead being forced to remain and serve. Now they just seem to be forced to remain; the Scourge doesn’t really have a mission statement, so their servitude doesn’t come across as being the point to keeping it around. Just maintaining their imprisonment.
It’s just speculation, but the fact that Boplvar can’t seemingly just arrange for their destruction to “set things right” makes me wonder if the Damned might specifically be souls whose identities were so warped and damaged by the experience of being Scourged that sending them on to the afterlife (Shadowlands, etc.) could actually threaten the balance of Life and Death by spreading their madness and corruption outside the containment of the Scourge.
Hence the need for a Lich King to now keep them forever suspended rather than a Lich King who can just march them into a volcano or something and eliminate the threat for good, as the need for there to always be a Lich King implicitly brings with it a need for there to always be a Scourge.