Art is a reflection of the time in which it was made.
This is an important component of any work of art. So when people talk about allowing 'updated' models and graphics, I have to wonder if they understand that Vanilla is a work of art and Classic is simply bringing that monumental accomplishment in the mmo genre back to life. It's not a 'remastered' version, it's not 'modernizing' Classic WoW, by making it look and play more like current WoW. To do so is to take away from the distinct identity that's core to what made it so special.
Work of art? Bit of a stretch.
I thought they said they don’t have access to old models in the Forbes magazine article? Least not the ones from release.
I thought they said they don’t have access to old models in the Forbes magazine article? Least not the ones from release.
02/26/2018 11:54 AMPosted by IllinasteWork of art? Bit of a stretch.
I thought they said they don’t have access to old models in the Forbes magazine article? Least not the ones from release.
That doesn't make any sense. The old models are part of the client. If they didn't have the old models, then they wouldn't have the old client at all. Which isn't true as they said at Blizzcon they have an old Vanilla build up and running already.
02/26/2018 11:56 AMPosted by Anitharia02/26/2018 11:54 AMPosted by IllinasteWork of art? Bit of a stretch.
I thought they said they don’t have access to old models in the Forbes magazine article? Least not the ones from release.
That doesn't make any sense. The old models are part of the client. If they didn't have the old models, then they wouldn't have the old client at all. Which isn't true as they said at Blizzcon they have an old Vanilla build up and running already.
Article asked about updated models and Brack said they’d ask the community but then the article talked about old blocky models being hard to get.
The article was really unclear.
I like what OP is trying to say and I pretty much agree, but I think using the term "work of art" is a bit redundant when talking about Vanilla or... any video game, for that matter.
Video games, in general, are art. It's a visual medium where the artistic merits should be evident to anyone has even a bit of experience with it.
I think Classic should be treated like a museum attraction, a little time capsule that represents what Vanilla was like as a game.
Video games, in general, are art. It's a visual medium where the artistic merits should be evident to anyone has even a bit of experience with it.
I think Classic should be treated like a museum attraction, a little time capsule that represents what Vanilla was like as a game.
The difference I see between Classic and 'Modern WoW' is that the current game is an evolving experience. They need to update it, add to it, upgrade as necessary, etc.. Whereas, as you say, Classic is simply a piece on display, preserved as it was.02/26/2018 12:11 PMPosted by IconöclastI like what OP is trying to say and I pretty much agree, but I think using the term "work of art" is a bit redundant when talking about Vanilla or... any video game, for that matter.
Video games, in general, are art. It's a visual medium where the artistic merits should be evident to anyone has even a bit of experience with it.
I think Classic should be treated like a museum attraction, a little time capsule that represents what Vanilla was like as a game.
I understand the intention, but I think the 'work of art' analogy is pretty weak when it comes to Classic. Art is usually very static. WoW is not, and Vanilla never was.
As far as the visuals go, I really hope they use the old style. The aesthetics are a huge part of Vanilla for me. I don't know if I can play Classic without that old look. I'll certainly try, but if I'm running around Durotar seeing those new BfA boar models... that just isn't going to work for me.
As far as the visuals go, I really hope they use the old style. The aesthetics are a huge part of Vanilla for me. I don't know if I can play Classic without that old look. I'll certainly try, but if I'm running around Durotar seeing those new BfA boar models... that just isn't going to work for me.
02/26/2018 12:14 PMPosted by MogarThe difference I see between Classic and 'Modern WoW' is that the current game is an evolving experience. They need to update it, add to it, upgrade as necessary, etc.. Whereas, as you say, Classic is simply a piece on display, preserved as it was.
Yeah, I see what you're saying and I agree, Classic is a different kind of art and it should be preserved for the sake of authenticity.
I certainly don't think Modern WoW and Classic are on the same level of quality, but I do think they're both art by virtue of being video games.
However, something being art doesn't speak for it's quality - there's a lot of art out there that is just straight up bad, and something being art doesn't automatically give it merit.
... not saying Modern WoW is complete crap or anything, but there is a reason why I'm more excited for Classic then I'll probably ever be for BfA.
How is it weak? Vanilla is over. Did it change during its lifetime? Of course. Simply constrain the changes considered to that same timeline, and it still retains a true Vanilla experience.02/26/2018 12:18 PMPosted by HushupsI understand the intention, but I think the 'work of art' analogy is pretty weak when it comes to Classic. Art is usually very static. WoW is not, and Vanilla never was.
I see a lot of arguments that feature 'x' wasn't added to Vanilla because of limited technological capacities, or time constraints, or whatever. It doesn't matter. If Orson Welles had access to today's technology, would Citizen Kane look different? Of course, but like I said art is a reflection of its time period. Or are movies not a form of art either?
02/26/2018 12:25 PMPosted by MogarHow is it weak?
Because the analogy compares WoW, something always in flux, to something that generally only ever had 1 form of existence. Recreating a painting or sculpture or music piece is straightforward in its goal. Recreating Vanilla means making decisions on what to recreate. Obviously much different.
With or without connected FPs, AHs.
With or without Battlemasters, BGs, CRBGs, DHKs.
Deciding on dungeon sizes.
How/when to stagger content release or to stagger at all.
Which talent trees are used?
I don't think the analogy works very well.
02/26/2018 12:25 PMPosted by MogarIf Orson Welles had access to today's technology, would Citizen Kane look different? Of course, but like I said art is a reflection of its time period. Or are movies not a form of art either?
I don't really know what you're going after here, so I'm just gonna pass on this part of your post.
I don't know how else to explain it to you. That flux ended at patch 1.12.1. That's the end of Vanilla. So whatever happened during 1.1 and 1.12.1 IS Vanilla. There are changes that happened during that time frame that need to be considered, and that will be done. Blizzard will pick a class balance patch, will choose QoL changes that took place during Vanilla, and how to rollout dungeons/raids/bgs/etc. And then...that's it. Release Classic and Classic will be a static representation of that time period.02/26/2018 12:25 PMPosted by MogarHow is it weak?
Because the analogy compares WoW, something always in flux
The point I'm making is you don't update art. The comparison you keep making to current WoW is irrelevant. That's a different game and it has nothing to do with Vanilla. The strokes are still being painted for the current game. Vanilla is resting behind a pane of glass.
02/26/2018 01:08 PMPosted by MogarThe point I'm making is you don't update art.
Yeah. I answered that part.
02/26/2018 12:18 PMPosted by HushupsAs far as the visuals go, I really hope they use the old style. The aesthetics are a huge part of Vanilla for me. I don't know if I can play Classic without that old look. I'll certainly try, but if I'm running around Durotar seeing those new BfA boar models... that just isn't going to work for me.
I'm glad you agree. I was just befuddled why you're getting caught up in the fact that Vanilla changed during the course of its lifetime. Obviously all art is viewed different; a painting isn't the same as a movie or a tv series or a video game. But they're all forms of art. Vanilla has a definitive beginning and end, and that's what matters. There is a finite amount of changes that are clearly defined and anything outside that spectrum simply isn't Vanilla.02/26/2018 01:11 PMPosted by Hushups02/26/2018 01:08 PMPosted by MogarThe point I'm making is you don't update art.
Yeah. I answered that part.02/26/2018 12:18 PMPosted by HushupsAs far as the visuals go, I really hope they use the old style. The aesthetics are a huge part of Vanilla for me. I don't know if I can play Classic without that old look. I'll certainly try, but if I'm running around Durotar seeing those new BfA boar models... that just isn't going to work for me.
But anyway, now I'm just getting redundant.
A very popular option is a toggle in the graphics settings that lets you choose between original look and HD. A win win for everybody whether they want the original look or not. It will also help Blizzard draw in a larger base.
Blizzard’s quote in the Forbes interview I take as using the existing HD models rather than making new high res versions of the SD models.
Blizzard’s quote in the Forbes interview I take as using the existing HD models rather than making new high res versions of the SD models.
That’s an opinion. For me Classic should be treated like any other game. Develop an adequate Frankenpatch, gather feedback, let it evolve. We have over a decade of knowledge now about what exactly made Vanilla WoW as great as it was, and Blizzard hopefully learned from their mistakes.
Runescape got it right when they had their second chance, why wouldn’t WoW?
I’ll add this: any museum that gets popular enough will eventually have new exhibits...
Runescape got it right when they had their second chance, why wouldn’t WoW?
I’ll add this: any museum that gets popular enough will eventually have new exhibits...
nah it should be treated it as a money machine and as a lab rat for the upcoming wow2 lol
02/26/2018 01:18 PMPosted by MogarI was just befuddled why you're getting caught up in the fact that Vanilla changed during the course of its lifetime.
You asked me why I thought it was a weak analogy, so I explained.
Remember when T2 came out and it looked like crap? Then they had to redo it into the T2 we have today.
Let’s keep the old T2 armor since it was so great. You know, art and stuff.
Let’s keep the old T2 armor since it was so great. You know, art and stuff.
02/26/2018 01:52 PMPosted by FacerollA very popular option is a toggle in the graphics settings that lets you choose between original look and HD. A win win for everybody whether they want the original look or not. It will also help Blizzard draw in a larger base.
Blizzard’s quote in the Forbes interview I take as using the existing HD models rather than making new high res versions of the SD models.
Very popular? Most people are against it.
02/26/2018 02:30 PMPosted by Anitharia02/26/2018 01:52 PMPosted by FacerollA very popular option is a toggle in the graphics settings that lets you choose between original look and HD. A win win for everybody whether they want the original look or not. It will also help Blizzard draw in a larger base.
Blizzard’s quote in the Forbes interview I take as using the existing HD models rather than making new high res versions of the SD models.
Very popular? Most people are against it.
You mean the 1% of the playerbase who are on the forums?