Torghast has quite a bit of potential to be a fun and engaging experience for players to feel challenged while also being able to complete necessary requirements for their high-end gear. However, in its current iteration, much of Torghast is too RNG and/or overtuned. For example, getting the same dodge or cdr on Venthyr’s Door of Shadows on multiple anima cells, or getting truck loads of phantasma to then get a single 3% mastery buff or cdr on vanish (which you can’t use on a boss anyway) feels really terrible. All of this to eventually end up at an overtuned boss based on the abilities you’ve accrued. If you knew what you were going to get, you could plan and make really fun builds out of it, but with the powers being 100% RNG, you end up with a hodge podge of unrelated abilities that are incredibly underwhelming much of the time.
If beneficial anima powers were more readily accessible rather than pure RNG, we likely would not need a nerf to adds/bosses as you could select anima powers for a build that was designed to tackle the content at hand. On the other hand, if we are going to leave anima powers the way they are, we likely need a nerf to clear time and/or bosses. Spending 30-60 minutes (wide range dependent on a player’s skill level) to eventually end up at a boss that is impossible based on the abilities you’ve accrued, is one of the worst experiences in WoW that I’ve had, and I don’t believe I am the only player to experience this.
I really do appreciate Torghast, as it has so much incredible potential. However, right now, it is in a very mandatory and demoralizing state. I know that I am not looking to waste, quite literally, hours attempting to re-run Torghast in hopes that “this time” I get the right powers to beat a boss that requires a specific build or something very close. And I doubt that many players are. Some classes and specs actually have a decent time due to scaling and abilities available (looking at you Prot Pally), but it is not the same for everyone. Not by a longshot.
Please, Blizzard, address Torghast. Sooner than later.
And, in my humble opinion, a more appropriate scaling system would make it more enjoyable in the meantime. A nerf might be able to get us to the “easier over time” place without it feeling so daunting and taxing. Legitimately getting to bosses that are unbeatable with the current makeup is not a fun or engaging mechanic or situation. It’s just frustrating and demoralizing.
I don’t think that is the issue. The issue is the RNG. Progression is fine, but when you get a run with complete garbage buffs, you end up wasting an hour or two.
That is the biggest issue people have with it. People do not like spending a couple of hours working on something only to end up with nothing but frustration.
The RNG will end up destroying the place for many players.
Thats literally his point that you quoted. You buy items that reduce the RNG to eventually be a non issue. Thats what progression means. The issue isn’t RNG. The issue is some classes get powers that make the content trivial while others are basically useless.
They could do a better job balancing the abilities but personally I like the random nature of it as it means each run is different.
If you could build a certain way what would happen is people would just build towards the meta and everything would need to be balanced around always using the meta to offer any challenge.
I would like to point out that this sounds quite a lot like you want to be able to win every time because you are investing the hour or so to beat the run. Is that a fair assessment?
What about dungeon or raid runs that spend an hour and you don’t get anything?
I would also like to point out the Irony in Islands being boring and unplayable because it was mindless auto win content, but now torgast is bad because it isn’t mindless auto win and it needs changing also?
The RNG component is what gives Torghast varied outcomes, and arguably more interesting content.
I can agree with that Sabetha. I tend to lean towards a scaling correction to make it less unbeatable at the moment and/or alterations to class/covenant powers that make them more appropriate for the content.
The vast majority of things you buy have a “chance” at granting you something. That sir is RNG. The stuff you get outside is RNG based, the stuff inside is RNG based. The boss you get is RNG based. When things are RNG based, it means progression is a roll of the dice.
I do agree that some classes have much better powers and can survive better in the place than others, and that too is an issue.
There is definitely a difference between basic content that unlocks central aspects of an expansion and high-end raiding/M+ where you’re pushing the limits. You should be able to complete an hour-long basic task for a central aspect of the expansion, yes. Should it also feel engaging and somewhat challenging? Yes. There is definitely a fine line, and they’ve missed the mark somewhat here making the content unbeatable in a lot of situations.
Not being able to complete based off skill is one thing, not doing it based off RNG is another. RNG gets patched out, we’ve seen it with countless raid and dungeon encounters. Fetid Devourer is one such example when they patched out some of the randomness of the pustules. Different mechanic, same concept.
I think buffing up some of the weaker anima powers would mostly solve the issue.
Personally I’m maining an Enhancement Shaman and I’m loving the level of difficulty from the final bosses, so I hope they just bring everybody else in line with where I’m at rather than making things easier for me.
I’ve not actually run into anything straight up unbeatable yet. Synod required me to be basically perfect on interrupts, but that was the harshest it got. I managed to get him after only 1 death.
That said due to the nature of utility in kits, I suspect there will always be a gap in how easy/hard solo Torghast is at least for certain specs. Enh Shaman is extremely well suited to something like this, so even a bad Anima Power build isn’t that bad for me.
Actually you can’t compare that place to raiding. If I am progressing in a raid, I have several advantages:
1.) I know what boss I’m going to fight and I can prepare well in advance for that specific fight.
2.) If I wipe on that boss, I am not going to go against a clock (or 5 lives). I can continue to work on that boss until I get it down.
3.) I don’t have to rely on RNG for the run. I know exactly what to expect for the whole run.
4.) In a raid, I have the option to come back and work on the boss without having to clear the whole place again. I can even save the lock-out for the next week if it can’t be done this week.
People need to stop comparing that place to raiding. It doesn’t compare at all. The place is RNG based, and that is my only complaint. It had promise but they threw the RNG thing into it and it really sucks when all your choices end up garbage.
I think the issue is more so wasting 30 minutes or more fighting through boring trash for no reward only to get to a boss you stand no chance to defeat. Then after wasting all of this time you get absolutely nothing for a reward.
The Warden of Souls, as a melee dps, particularly one with such low amounts of self sustain over the long term, feels very overtuned. There are very specific and particular builds that may work with it, but they’re few and far between. I don’t know that it’s currently soloable as sub rogue without an absolutely perfect anima setup and execution, which the player can only control one of.
It’s a roguelike experience, RNG is a feature, not a bug. Whether that’s fun for you is a different story and I’m sorry to hear you’re not enjoying it. I do wish the runs were a bit shorter, maybe cut off one of the floors.
The thing I hate about torghast is you spend an hr getting only torghast things and If you can’t kill the last boss well thats a hour of your time wasted. Also having a recommended item level would be nice.
I don’t know if Torghast needs a “complete rework”, but I can see room for improvement.
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve played plenty of rogue-like games in the past so I get the idea that it’s meant to be a challenge and that success isn’t a guarantee.
However, some of the much better rogue-likes out there proffer even small rewards regardless of being able to complete the game. Better players will be able to advance faster, true, but regardless anyone will be able to progress with enough patience.
The fact that you can waste a complete run after 30+ minutes seems to be the biggest concern to me. Not get full rewards? Certainly! Depending on how far you get determines how much of the rewards you keep.
But nothing? Seems excessive. Which like a number of other folks are denoting, makes this particular game mode less than attractive to spend time in.