I came to the conclusion that this post should have been submitted via feedback in-game. It’s too specific of a topic on forums, and not the ideal place to discuss the damage and how a class is performing on Warcraft logs for m+.
I’m sure blizzard is checking these results and there is no reason to discuss it here. Please delete thread.
Prot Paladins feel a bit too squish on high keys because of the nerfs they received when the season started. Bear tanks and VDH are far more tankier from what I’ve experienced, but they also don’t bring the interrupts + blessings that Prot does.
Tank metas shifting mid season isn’t anything new. Season 1 was Prot Warrior fotm and then it shifted towards Prot Paladins once they geared up.
Yeah on the interrupts, but Prot pally has to use divine toll on the pull for threat. I’m also having issues with any prot pally holding threat on large packs. I have to use a threat reduction or I’m gonna get melee’d if I open hard.
And shield is their primary aoe DPS. And their kick is short range. So asking a prot pally to hold shields means overall dps in the bucket.
VDH has sigils, which seem 10x better as a silence and not part of their threat box.
Eh, I main Brew and Fort weeks just eat tanks up, all of them. Specific dungeons like HOI, ULD, and FH are meat grinders for tanks due to big trash pulls with lots of auto-attacks and tankbusters coming out of nowhere. Fort weeks are just rough for all tanks right now. Personally, on the DPS front, I don’t feel that tank classes with a shield and 1h sword should be outdpsing the non shield tanks anyway. Also, on another topic, tanks need a threat table buff, far too many class reworks and new classes that have insane burst now with no buffs to aggro tables.
I cant relate im a prot pally and in the keys that I run I have no problems surviving and keeping my group up with my utility at the same time your issue is that theres alot of bad prot paladins because its currently fotm
I’ve been debating forgoing the 4 set for better stats. I can’t rule out that you may be getting fotm rerollers, but I’m solid af in 18s and doing around 65k depending on the dungeon. I realize that’s not the key level mentioned, but you did say globaled.
The 4 set applies basically the same buff as 2 set and the “chance” to get grand crusader must be giga low. I’d rather put on some vers/mastery or crit mastery stuff.
Fwiw, prot paladin has always struggled with high physical because sotr blows as a defensive. This is a season that is heavily weighted toward physical damage, so out specialty of mixed/magic blocking isn’t really coming through.
That said, I acknowledge it’s bears time to shine and I hope the rework does them well.
You definitely do not toll on the pull. Thats terrible. Thats losing SOO much damage.
This thread is completely misguided. If you are a prot pally getting globaled in 21-22 you are misplaying or undergeared. It’s not because you are a pally which was pushing keys higher than that in less gear than everyone has now. I can’t speak to survivability in cutting edge keys, but your average VDH in that key range is actually far more likely to randomly get chunked to death because they didn’t play their tier correctly.
I think even the cutting edge players are overstating VDH effectiveness and there is a lot of hopium around the bear changes on the PTR that may not come to fruition.
Thing is SotR is in an odd place, it is more or less shield slam which increases armor. More a rotational ability then an actual defensive.
That said, I only do 16-17s currently, yet unless I am caught out of consecrate I am usually a rock barring tank busters, massive bleeds or mild CC (stuns). Keep in mind though, I am mid to high 30s % wise on haste and low to mid 30s on mastery so fast as all get out and high damage reduction in consc, more so if I am popping actual defensives like GoaK and AD.
As far as Toll on pull? I only do that if there is a caster mob I need to keep locked down, it is a larger pull or a boss. Outside of those, I prefer to hold toll for snap threat in the case of a pat or extra mobs being added mid pull. But I do run Devine Resonance, which repeats the toll cast every 5 seconds for 15 seconds (so 3 more toll casts) which helps in damage, threat and locking down casters.
And the armor is subject to DR. Iron fur is too, but bear usually struggles and they also can stack multiple. Sotr just isn’t enough armor to be excited about.
That said, conc is our primary defensive, as you mentioned. Moving out of it is deadly. I’m at 35% haste (DR breakpoint) and 36% mastery. I’ve been investing into crit for the parry/damage to get to 100% melee avoidance. Hopefully that carries me to my goals without issue.
(5% chance to be missed, dodge 3%, parry, 22% + 15% for talent at 5 targets, then 58% block chance.)
Conc and block. Pally will still take far less damage than a bear or VHD does (because of block), albeit with significantly less self healing.
Right, but we don’t control block.
I have not done anything higher than 15 on my tank but fortified week is when i have most fun as prot paladin ,with proper cd management prot paly is super strong in fortified weeks.
Its not that we dont have alot of self healing its that we are chads that use alot of our healing on the group instead of ourselves 
Yep, prot paladins can face roll up to 20 keys easily. But then, just fair warning, they can get globaled suddenly, possibly when their CDS are down. If a good healer is tracking CDs, they will pain sub, aura of mastery or bark skin on the next pull where the tank is dry.
It’s not all dungeons. Some dungeon pull times lead to this empty gap for prot pally’s. It’s odd considering how many CDS a prot pally has, but once you get above 20s you’ll notice it. Ulda is a great example. There is no breather. Brackenhide on the other hand has a lot of space between pulls so a prot pally can get their CDS back easily.
In S1, there was almost no empty gaps because Prot Pally’ could basically chain sentinel. Now, we are seeing some space in a prot pally tool kit.
SoTR is also a holy power dump. This is another problem. In BFA SoTR was not tied to holy power and used similar to how a warrior would use shield block. The up time needed for a fantastic tank was 100% and there was a skill cap in how a prot pally timed it perfectly to hit that 100% in combat. Now it’s not based on charges, it’s based on holy power, which feels funny, as SOTR does not feel as strong as it did in BFA.
The solution is to buff SOTR, and give it a recharge like it was in BFA. Keep WoG tied to holy power but then tie and consecration to holy power in SoTR’s place. Thus, prot pally’s would always have an abundance of holy power and they would have to keep consecration timed with their spends. This would then create a good skill cap interaction. Where currently, it’s just press SOTR almost nonstop. Button mashing. And then if dev’s are feeling really kind, the best way to help prot pally’s is to make consecration an aura that debuffs mobs, and then a prot paladin could move more easily like all other tanks can.
But right now, the solution is rerolling VDH or Bear for many pushers.
As a high end tank bear feels really good currently. I am a little worried on the rework, we gain more damage but lose after wild fire. I feel invincible in high keys. Dh is similar with more damage, I average 80-90k as bear currently.
Yes I do agree dh fall over more often with low skill pally doesn’t I got a pally alt I do high keys on, very few areas I die on.
Op I think just played with bad players, bear and dh will prob be meta. I personally hope bear but blizz prefers vdh historically. Brew is just a glorified dps. So squishy.
This could also happen if we had kept the glyph ability that enabled consecrate to move with us.
Part of the issue is paladins are the epitome of “form murder sphere, plant feet and go to town” in a world that you are punished if you stand still for an decent length of time.
They also don’t scale that great with secondaries, so earlier in an expansion they are strong, but later on they get weaker compared to other tanks.
So, if you’re a streamer, roll prot pally s1. Then preroll s2. For the rest of us who love our paladins, Well. Paladins are a great key for easy 20s. But for pushing, we are better off with other options. (Kind of funny that 20s aren’t considered pushing right now).
If this take is coming from this week alone, it could be the storming affix because when you’re in the sky above your consecration you lose your cons buff (which sucks) which means kiting a bit more to stay away from storming and staying in your cons.
I’ve definitely noticed getting hit by storming a few times then my health plummets down til I hit the ground again lol
Well this is completely false. Prot scales extremely well off secondaries, especially mastery. Watch andybrew pug 25-26s and have no issues living. I do 23s on my pally to help friends while getting my vault. I get you trying to make it sound like you know your stuff but don’t make up things if you don’t understand the class or role.