Since Blizzard had the wonderful idea to make you start losing rank before Combatant, in Shadowlands, this has brought up the problem that Unranked has far too hi a rating variance from the start of the ranking to end.
Thus I’m left wondering, if losing ranking before combatant is going to stay, is it time to lop off around 1000 ratings so the unranked tier won’t inadvertently punish you for playing with other unranked people.
Alternatively if they want a work put in cushion the ranked PvP system seems to need the rating system weight differences in rating at the Unranked tier far less than in Combatant and above.
Its rather stupid if you just want to do some casual rated arenas only to find out playing with others in your tier forces you to need to win at a 3-1 rate, just because they have done a set number of matches.
This also hits certain classes a lot more than other where hard carrying low rank being a rouge, pyro, or other such isn’t an option.
EDIT: After the discussion in this thread I’m fairly certain the issue could also be solved while retaining the mmr stabilizing aspect of Unranked, by simply setting a minimum value to mmr/rating of players in unranked for the system determining match making and rating changes.
Please don’t turn this into a thread complaining about paladins just because its what I post on.
I am confused and not sure what you are mad about? before 1400 you gain like 60 or more points per win and lose like 10 for an L?? if you are stuck below 1400 you really are just in need of looking up some tips/tricks for arena and I don’t mean that as a bash. Arena really isn’t like anything else in WoW, its beyond fast esp now in SL. PVE you have like 3-5 seconds to react to mechanics but in PVP you have .5-1 second to react and you better react with the proper tool or it will be a wasted CD.
I’ll need to check my numbers once I get a few games in today, but I float around 1400 and recall that the gains slowed right down to about 10 or 11 rating around the mid-1300’s this season. W/L is about 50% and I lost about 100 rating over the last week and a half.
I’m of course nowhere near an expert, but I think OP raises a valid concern about the ratio. (Input appreciated, here! I guess it has to do with MMR and how it’s affected by playing with randos?)
It only has to do with your mmr. I have a alt resto druid that is very under geared and I’m just not a super good resto druid. I lost multiple games at 1k rating so I lost rating and my mmr went down. When I beat teams with a lower mmr than me I gained less points since I was expected to win. It’s how this system works. Your rating has 0 to do with it. It’s based off mmr
Whether its based on estimated mmr or rating it doesn’t change that the system shouldn’t be weighing differences in mmr/rating so heavily at the unranked bracket that you can achieve 50% or better win loss ratio and lose rating because you were 1200+ and they hadn’t reached the point where they can lose rating in matches.
This sadly skews the system to punish higher unranked players from grouping with newer unranked players, while rewarding them for grouping with higher rating players.
If all ranks below 1200 are effectively padding to stabilize mmr they shouldn’t be weighed as if for example 600 to 1200 is a meaningful difference in rating/mmr.
One of my guildies also experienced a similar problem where in 3s for a while he would only lose rank while getting 0 for a win just because he was 1300 and his team mates were fresh.
Either Unranked should be accepted its just padding to establish an mmr and go back to not losing rating before 1400 or the system needs to treat differences in mmr/rating at this tier as less meaningful due to inherent instability and lack of meaning to mmr/rating differences.
you start at like 1500 mmr
so naturally you’re initially gaining a ton / losing none
but if you chain lose on your way up the CR ladder your mmr drops closer to your cr making wins worth less and losses more punishing
it’s designed this way to keep you in the right skill bracket
once you prove that you can consecutively beat players of that same skill level your mmr climbs allowing you to gain more points
Problem is it doesn’t work that way since the system is based on team average, while forgetting to account that ranks before your 1200 the rating is effectively meaningless. Thus if your playing with somebody of the same tier but under 1200 the system makes you have to win significantly over 50% to even break even.
Last night for example played with a few druids who were still below 1200 and despite winning 50/50, if not slightly better I ended up losing rating for partnering with somebody in the same tier. This isn’t good design and makes a antifun barrier for entry that people in unranked can’t just find a partner but are still forced to act like the mmr/rating of somebody who just hasn’t done enough means anything.
Another simple solution would be for the system to mask new people as all 1200 until they reach that point for mmr/rating assessment of their partner.
If you play with somebody below your MMR, it will average the team down. Say you are 1300, teammate is 1100, you average to 1200. You will be matched against other 1200 teams on average, and lose additional rating for being 1300 and losing to a 1200 team. you cannot go 50/50 when playing at an MMR lower than your CR. You need to go above 50% winrate just to stay even.
If you want to avoid this, then you should look for teammates at the same or better CR as you.
There! There is the issue of the whole rating system.
Its an harsh to get the right group, either in arena or rbgs.
As a casual, that is now force to do rated match, the part that is annoying me, is the LFG, this force people to get super picky about requiring EXP and Low CR… its like everybody expect you to be better then them to get in a group.
And after spending half an hour to find a group, If you dont get in the right MMR group, you will get punish for a defeat or get no gain for a win.
Well like, LFG no voice arena’s really is not the way to push rating. You are at a massive strategical disadvantage out the gate. You really want a consistent team, which i understand is not always easy, but its what players should work towards. You gain rating by playing a lot of games with the same people… especially as DPS. Healers have a better shot at trying to creep their rating by finding teams a bit above their CR
And what I am saying is the rankings 1200 and below are all so insignificant in difference that the system shouldn’t be counting it as a true rating/mmr and penalizing unranked people of different ranks from quing together, just because person x hasn’t done enough games to reach 1200.
Edit: You posted while typing, so in response to that. It shouldn’t take coms and an organized group to reach the starting gate of Combatant.
this would probably be the easiest solution to your problem
i’m sure it affects a lot of a silent majority of players that wanna queue but are put off initially by an archaic system
Your MMR has nothing to do with how many games you’ve played other than it being more volatile at first. It does not start at zero… I just can’t follow your logic. All that matters is the MMR of your team. your rating will approach the MMR of your team as you play more and more games. If your team improves, and the MMR increases, then your rating will move towards that number instead.
Evidence I have witnessed disagrees since when I play with people below 1200 my rank points magically start reappearing when they hit a closer rating to me. I highly doubt I’m getting that much better in only 10 or so matches.
If the system is starting you at a set point the difference between 2 people at unranked shouldn’t be large enough to incur such massive penalties you that you would have to be winning roughly 75% of games to make progress.
Okay well its pretty clear that you don’t understand how the system works. Your rating is calculated off of a mathematical equation comparing your CR to the MMR of the other team, and whether or not you lost. If you play with another player that is lower rating than you, your MMR will be lowered, putting you against worse opponents, and punishing you with larger rating losses when you lose, while giving you small gains for winning.
Like i said - this is a straight math equation. There are no shenanigans going on here.