Would it be fair to say that the fact that anyone can get good gear after a few hours of playing is what killed retail? I think this is why we need vanilla.
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Both are extremes that I don’t like.
I remember being 1 of 8-10 rogues in vanilla where bosses were dropping like 3 pieces? (2 if you don’t count the guaranteed warlock/hunter tier)
I’d personally prefer something further along. Wotlk or mop maybe. TBC was ok but still a bit annoying what with shamans and warriors still using leather armour because plate/mail sucked.
Classic was certainly great at the time, but the improvements definitely made things better. It’s just that at a certain point (subjective for everyone) they went too far.
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good thing you can play vanilla. Have fun shadow bolting only due to the debuff limit.
400-415 cache gear is a good spot. People that dont raid wont be super far behind like they were in WoD.
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Define good gear?
My gear is pretty good, and no one is going to be getting it in a few hours of playing.
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Actually, I find what “killed” retail is not the ease of gearing, but the fact there are too many players that see the gear as the be-all, end-all of the game. Raiding used to be a big thing, but why raid when you can get similar, or better, gear with less effort unless you just like to raid?
It is fine to have gear progress, but people need to decide what they actually want from the game. Me? I like raiding, I’ll do PvP and M+ to help facilitate my raiding but I see what I do there as stepping stones to do what I actually want to do.
I guess some of the issue is just the age old fight between playing to have fun and “if you are not playing to be the best, din’t bother playing”. This is a game people, if being the best is the only way you can have fun, you are missing the point.
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I think you make a great point and I’m guilty of it myself. Even when I could enjoy wow (or MMOs in general) I don’t want to play unless I feel like I can put the time in to “get good” and compete. I’ve been changing my attitude and just trying to dive into things for the fun of it first and foremost and I am definitely enjoying MMOs more.
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Even I have slipped up from time to time. I am not as bad as some others, as I will do lower content to help friends/guild mates out but when it comes to things I do on my own/pug? I aim for fun first but still like the reward to be at least potential side-grades or off spec upgrades if it is not my preferred content.
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I think people just believe back in the day everyone raided. The only reason raiding was more popular back in the day is because you could AFK and no one would notice, and there was nothing else to do.
It was either that, sit in AV for 3 days or make a new guy.
Then Blizzard added more things to do and now we are at the point where people take the path of least resistance to as high a gear level as they can hit before quitting.
My point was people should raid because they like to raid, people should push M+ because they like M+, people should PvP because they like to PvP, etc. I am willing to let some cross participation slide because in order to do some things, one needs gear/essences/etc from other activities. However, the bulk of their time should be spent on how they want to have fun in game.
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Here is a funny thing. My gear is petty good, same as yours and I don’t raid at all. I take that back,I went once and only for the crafting shards, but wound up with a lucky forge.
I suppose it just depends on how you look at time invested vs. reward.
That’s what people always did. They AFK raided because they could get gear. It’s why LFR is a thing, they can zerg bosses and get gear. There will always be a majority that will want the path of least resistance, then they’ll quit once they have what they think is good enough. And then they’ll say WoW is too easy.
The Challenge Mode people, the Proving Grounds, the Mythic Raiders, even the Mythic +10 Dungeoneers aren’t the majority. They never will be. If Blizzard fails to cater to the majority the game will die like WIldstar.
The fact the minority can do things that cater to them, is due to the support of the majority.
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Yeah sure easy is why people complain about layered rng in bfa’s loot system and also why they keep asking for vendors. The color purple doesn’t automatically mean good.
To answer your question more directly no, it would not be fair to say that.
ilvl = doesnt good gear
Define good gear item lvl? or actual good gear?
Item lvl is easy actual good gear is not
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ok? then go play classic?
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Even LFR is too much for some, with the Emissaries and World Quests providing gear that is up to normal, or heroic, ilvl
I have zero issue with them catering to the majority, I do have issues when what they do to cater to the majority bleeds into the minority and causes said minority to shrink. Like my guild could be doing normal Eternal Palace, learning fights and working our way up but nope, the “gear is not worth the time” because of things like M+, world quests, Benthic gear, etc.
When gear is the goal, we get those that don’t want to do things like work their way up in M+, we get those that don’t want to do LFR, normal or heroic raiding because it is not as “good” as the gear from other content.
When fun is the goal, we can get those that do lower keys, we can get those that do lower raid difficulty.
I said it before that if being the best is the only way you have fun, you are missing the point, well, to sum up the attitude of ones like me: if you are not playing to have fun/are not having fun while playing, don’t bother playing.
That is also with me admitting that Blizzard needs to focus on making the game fun in the first place. “Daily chores” like WQs are NOT fun and should not take up more then 1 hour unless someone has a boatload of alts. I’d rather spend my time, even though I am one with said boatload of alts, running dungeons, raids, BGs, IEs, maybe an arena or 2. In other words, content that is in place for people to actually run and have fun doing.
yeah…those stinking parents who want to play wow but cant devote 10 hours a day to a video game.
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If someone stops playing something simply because the gear they get isn’t that good, then they probably weren’t really having fun in the first place were they. They were just thinking about the gear, and raiding or whatever to them is the chore.
Pretty much, fun in MMOs should be about the journey, not the destination yet too many I see make it about the destination.
In fact, sometimes I think we get races like the Pandaren and Tortollians to remind us, as players, that not everything needs to be fast fast fast, now now now, etc.
If Classic is the saving grace why are you here concerned with what “killed retail”? What do you consider “good gear”? I have never understood why someone else’s gear is a concern to anyone. Do you and have fun and leave everyone else alone. I also can’t get “good gear” or what I consider “good gear” in a few hours. Starter “greens” but not what I would even call close to good or anything that would get me in groups.
Are you just bored and looking for a pot to stir. You are on a 15, no cheevo points, and 5 posts, which leads me to believe you are either; so new you really have no clue or Classic is boring and you decided to troll the forums.
It’s not “vanilla” that was 15 years ago, you will never get vanilla again, this is Classic friend.
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