Titanforging and Warforging make me upset

[Turnberry-illidan (Turnberry)]

Apparently that certain gear level is only 406 (lowest kill of Jaina).

Every other boss is 400ish or lower.

Gear above that just compensates for skill, as is the purpose of gear in the first place.

I was mostly referring to neck levels but you are correct. If you average 406 item level and 42lvl necks on everyone along with 18/20 trolls in the group you can kill M Jaina.

[anon25271113]

I’ve got a belt you can grab with those gloves in the 1% lucky club.

[Totemterror-demon-soul]

How do you differentiate someone that loves something because it should be loved from someone that blindly loves? Aren’t you just conflating blind with “opinion I don’t agree with”?

[Felpooti-echo-isles]

If you do not care how fast you clear the content, then what is the problem? In my personal, totally anecdotal experience, 36 by release of BoD is reached fairly easily.

[Elynos-sargeras (Elynos)]

it’s quite simple, all of the most geared players are mythic raiders without fail. The system still works.

[Darren-suramar (Darren)]

Serious Response: If Ilvl discrepancy is becoming such a huge bother for a lot of people, to the point of some players feeling obligated to run literally all forms of content to squeeze out as many rewards as possible, why not just forgo ilvl all together, and just have a baseline ilvl that you reach from hitting the expansion’s level cap and doing some basic end-game things, such as normal dungeons, finishing up the zone storylines, etc.

It’s the approach GW2 has taken, and it seems to work fairly well in terms of keeping people still playing and doing Raids, yet not making them feel obligated to run content they don’t want to in order to gear up. Now obviously, you’d still have some tangible rewards for doing higher content - better looking armor sets (Dyeable maybe on Mythic?), unique mounts, pets, weapons, etc. All cosmetic of course, but tangible all the same.

I’m saying this, because a lot of responses have been wanting to have that thrill of downing new bosses, and getting really cool rewards, but not have this feeling of self accomplishment taken from them by getting a piece of gear that someone, somewhere, got from a Titan Forge in LFR.

See, the problem is if you take away WF and TF, than you’re going to be upsetting someone for your own personal benefit. Personally, I don’t care about the Forging system - I set my own goals for each patch (In this case, get 385 or higher in all slots, maybe clear Normal Dazar’alor, and finish the two new sets), and move on with my life in WoW. If someone in my group gets a 415 from a Normal or LFR Boss kill, more power to them! But for some people, getting that 415 piece might make their week, month, or hell, year. And honestly, I’m just not okay with taking that sense of progression away from them, even if they got that piece from LFR, and the skill requirement was minimal at best.

That’s why, if people seem to feel that ilvl upgrades aren’t that important to casual players, that our ilvl in general should be capped, and instead, rewards from high-end content are all cosmetic. You could still do something like increase the ilvl cap each patch, but still have it be a baseline where you hit it without much work.

It’s not a great solution, but it sure as hell beats taking away something from a large group of people that might enjoy the aspect of getting super loot as a little surprise when they kill a boss, and taking away that sense of character growth away.

[anon25271113]

No doubt, I ran countless mythic+ dungeons on my pally and cleared up to 15’s with the earned gear. I was still, however, 10-15 ilvls behind a good mythic raider. I ended the season in the mid 380ish range while mythic raiders were above 390 ilvl long before.

[Felpooti-echo-isles]

I think that cosmetic only rewards have been suggested in the past, but people freak out about making their character more powerful. Also, that removes the mechanic of gear making fights easier. I suppose the solution to this could be gradually making all fights easier at set intervals. I think all of this would be even more poorly received than TF/WF though, mainly because stats are such an integral part of the game.

[Spiçy-area-52 (Spiçy)]

Progression is important to people in a rpg

Edit: also people will throw fits over cosmetics they cant obtain. See CM weapons and CM armors no longer being availabale.

in the end no matter the reward people want it handed to them easily in some form

[Cilivia-illidan (Cilivia)]

NEED ! Lerroooooyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[anon25271113]

And with all the new systems and options for gear there is now more progression than ever for everyone and not just a few.

[Spiçy-area-52 (Spiçy)]

I mean its pseudo progression i suppose

[Bornakk]

It’s about both, and in equal parts a concern.

The loot system is completely disruptive towards organised and team efforts, making progression feel less like a team commitment and responsibility, and more inconsiderate to other players.

WF/TF is incredibly harmful to these teams, especially when a particular player might constantly achieve good rolls. I want to be able to kill a boss on the hardest difficulty and receive a reward equal to the effort I put in, having a Mythic boss drop gear under the current max makes me hate how I have the be lucky to achieve and actual BiS piece. It needs to be 425, socketed, with leech.

Just speaking hypothetical, if WF/TF existed for lower level gear, but like Mythic raiding always 100% had the BiS pieces, would you be satisfied? Even if you don’t do that content?

You should consider loot distribution first-hand, most of us still want Masterloot.

Rewards should equal the difficulty of the content, and time commitment should maybe have a factor, handing out endgame gear, and even having it “possibly” be the best gear possible is super dissatisfying as a player.

Has there ever been a point while playing the game where you haven’t had the time/ability to be pushing content? I know we have a dedicated crowd here (General Discussion represent!) but I’m trying to understand your history as well as others to see if they have been in other positions and how the rewards worked for them.

Concerned enough to peer over logs and RaiderIO when doing PuG content. There is almost no way of telling if a player actually earned their gear anymore.

It’s incredibly harmful to the game and community.

But when doing PuG content, why does it matter how they earned it? What content are you doing that requires this scrutiny? Are you pushing Mythic+ with PuGs and having issues? Personally I just roll with things as some under-geared players are pretty good at the game and if someone is making mistakes I try and help them out a bit or just focus on what I can do to help the group.

(I really enjoy these discussive posts, keep it up )

Cheers

[anon25271113]

So, it’s only progression based on your opinion on what progression means?

My understanding of the word in this instance is if you improve upon your character in an rpg you’ve made progression.

[Sykosis-emerald-dream]

sigh is everyone at blizzard just casual plebs? like seriously. If you are a 2500+ player or a mythic raider you are doing content far harder than anything 95% of playerbase is doing. You deserve to be rewarded for it. There were tons of casuals that played in earlier days and they had fun even though they had garbo gear. There is nothing rewarding for doing the most challenging parts of the game if some scrub who clicks their buttons and plays 1 hour a week gets a 420 TF from a warfront that they were playing some mobile game in the middle of. Its bull and anyone who isnt an old out of touch casual can see it. Its sad people like you are involved / make decisions in this game. Im sure many of the lead devs think similarly cus they arent true gamers.

[Mantaros-moon-guard]

Also, how much gear do you get each week from the warfront vs. the raid up to and including Heroic Jaina? I have a hunch one is much higher than the other.

I fully agree with Bornakk, you get 1 piece of confirmed gear every 4-5 weeks. It’s REALLY not that bad if you think about it. A person who is falling behind in gear has a easy way of catching up if they’ve not received loot for weeks.

With that said, I DO understand where the frustration comes from. It’s sort of the “be damned if you do/don’t.” Because I could try to push myself through the hardest content. Note: Not a bad thing, fine with that Or I can just wait a good 8 weeks to be fully geared on the tier.

I believe it wouldn’t be an issue if warfronts awarded Normal raid gear level, such as how PVP will only go to 385. I feel like that is acceptable.

And as such, diving into harder content should award the better gear 400 Such as how Arena’s/heroic raiding/Mythic + 10 does so. But should not be challenged by players going into a warfront and AFKING for 20 minutes.

[Kannil-kilrogg (Kannil)]

hey i want say thanks for the communications here

[Cailinn-winterhoof]

You can do the content that you enjoy and you will get rewarded for it.

As someone who prefers the pet battle aspect of the game, this is quite false. I don’t enjoy playing Alliance, I literally had to play alliance to cap and do a daily series because Bumbles can’t be caged. Same will apply to mount collectors.

Players feel they need to do all of the content because the game is actively forcing them into it with rewards that they do want. Island Expeditions is the prime example, 40 pets and 11 mounts. So if you collect those (especially mounts) that’s where your free time is going to be spent, even if you actively hate doing them.

I prefer to just focus on things I want to do with the time I have.

Some players focus is on getting better gear. Thus they end up in warfronts and pvp for the quest reward. Do they like either? Probably not, but it rewards them with what they specifically are playing for.

(I’m neither for or against WF/TF mind you, I don’t raid, pvp or do mythic+ when I don’t have to. I just level my army, and collect my pets… just couldn’t not respond to something so blatantly out of touch as ‘do what you enjoy because you don’t have to do everything’.)

[Cilivia-illidan (Cilivia)]

I agree on this point, a lot !

Why does it matter how your PuG group got the gear ? I’m GLAD when PuG is more geared than me. I consider myself around average player. So Playing with people with better gear than me pushes me to test new rotations, test new specs.

[Spiçy-area-52 (Spiçy)]

Its progression if ive worked towards a goal of getting stronger and through work accomplish that goal and in doing so make doing that content easier in the future

some +30 ilvl TF from killing 12 alligators in a swamp doesnt really achieve that for me