I love getting great stuff just for opening a box. It is like getting cool xmas gifts and birthday presents. I guess I never gave thought to the type of person who wouldn’t be happy just because something nice was given to someone without them “earnin it”. I like that sometimes in life you can just be born blessed with a winning personality, lots of friends, parents who can afford great gifts, and you just luck into great opportunities. I guess I never thought about the bitter people who might scoff about the ingame equivalent of great luck, or RNG. This game has a wonderful system that allows you to scratch, claw, and dance your way to great items and a sense of personal accomplishment. It also lets me take a break from fishing, entertaining, boating, and sleeping in to log on to this game and knock out a few quests, do some Bgs and grab the same loot. Really shouldn’t bother you one bit, I know I wont lose sleep over it. If it helps you feel better, just look in the mirror and tell yourself you are a much better player.
I agree, it’s not realistic to expect people who have a problem with forging to delete forged gear they get. And while gigantic forges aren’t necessary, neither is it necessary that mythic drops 415 gear since we know it’s doable without that. Not being necessary isn’t an argument against having something. And side note, you could try ignoring the forges other people get since, you know, all of your problems are predicated upon people getting loot you think they don’t deserve.
Sure you can… It is not required to complete content.
If you get a 425 off a World Quest for killing 6 bears, whilst wearing 355 gear…yes, I don’t think you deserve a 425 as a reward for your slaying of said 6 bears that was easily completed whilst in 355 gear.
I fundamentally disagree with that scale of a reward. It’s not that “you don’t deserve loot” – it’s more “you didn’t do anything that would justify THAT specific reward.”
You can still get bonuses, that’s fine and dandy. My personal cap would be set at +15 – Heroic raids would still be able to drop 415. That’s acceptable. Normal can roll up to 400, and LFR can roll up to 385. That’s totally fine by me.
If/When you step into the next tier of difficulty, you are outgearing the rewards outright, I fundamentally believe there is an issue with the rewards. Having 400 from 385-base and needing 405 from a base-400 for an upgrade is totally acceptable, it’s within reason of the Titanforge system. Having 415 from 385-base and needing a 420 from a base-400 for an upgrade is not acceptable.
Yes, I understand your position. Repeating your position again is intentionally deflecting from the point that was made. That point being, simply, that you can ignore it. You said you can’t because it directly impacts you. My point was your issue isn’t with what directly impacts you, it’s in the loot that other people are getting that you feel they shouldn’t be getting. You can ignore that. You’re choosing not to. There’s a difference.
Edit: In short, an honest response to that post would have been have been, “I don’t want to.” Not, “I can’t.”
Here we go again.
You keep trying to make this about “what others players get” – Rewards should be relative to difficulty. Keeping Mythic-level gear from World Quests breaks that ideology.
If my 365 warlock gets a 415 piece of loot for sneezing to the east, I don’t feel I deserve that 415 reward. It’s too much reward for the effort.
It would seem that you are making it about what others get! And what you think others deserve. But what you think they deserve only matters to you! So in the end it’s a you problem.
Cool. So when that happens, you’re more than capable of deleting the gear from your warlock on principle right? Because, I mean, that’s not your progression toon so you’re not hurting your team by doing that. Right? And when that happens feel free to come and share your experience about how it ruined your progression.
But really, let’s not try to kid anyone here. No matter how much you try to argue otherwise, it’s always boiled down to you having an issue with players getting loot you don’t think they deserve. You’ve said plenty here that demonstrates that over and over and over again. It boggles my mind that you try to pretend that’s not the case.
Correct – You don’t deserve that loot. Likewise, I don’t deserve that loot.
Why? Because I believe rewards should be relative to difficulty.
If you want to spin it ANY other way that exactly as I’ve stated above, you are simply refusing to accept my words.
That’s literally it. There’s no ulterior motive. We can disagree on a fundamental level. But you don’t get to speak for me with your false assumptions.
My personal experience so far into the current raid tier shows me this:
My item level is currently 400. I only have 2 “Titanforged/Warforged” pieces of gear equipped and one Warfront gear equipped. If I replace them with other raid gear or M+ gear (all of which is not “Titanforged or Warforged”) my item level changes to 398. So, none of it: Titanforging or “Welfare” gear is making any real difference in my progression; especially if we limit it to my Heroic raid progression.
When have rewards 100% been tied to difficulty? Oh never, and it would never work
You’re kidding right? Look at base item level drops. LFR doesn’t drop Heroic item level as a baseline reward.
“It would never work” – What a joke.
You’re making it about that. You’re literally worried about people getting rewards from world quests that you don’t think they deserve.
Difficulty has played a part in determining the reward, but it’s never been the sole factor like C pretends. Time investment is also something that has been factored in going all the way back to vanilla. We also know they increase or decrease the reward to incentivize more people to do specific content when they want a certain amount of participation (Against All Odds is a great example of this).
I could go on but there’s not really any point. The thread isn’t about what reward structure C wants implemented. The last thing Bornakk asked us to do (aside from not speaking for others) is to share how forging has personally impacted us, and C’s philosophy of loot that keeps being regurgitated isn’t that.
Same here, I’m 405 ilvl with zero titanforged pieces. Having a titanforged piece would maybe increase my total ilvl to 406 or 407. Who cares?
Seriously? You’re being dishonest again.
“Level of effort and difficulty” – this example was for Warfront caches. It applies to big Titanforge bonuses too.
No, you really don’t.
Going back to the original roots of the implentaion of the titanforge system. What exactly was the reason for adding titanforge in the first place?, did Blizzard actually say why it was even added in? I can’t remember. Was it mentioned at a blizzcon?
To encourage people to repeat content.
The key difference they’re trying to make is this.
They’re not worried what ‘other people’ are getting from their world quests. They’re worried that ‘players’ are getting incongruent rewards from world quests.
(On another note. If a person wants to play/raid with the mind set of either:
- Performing to the best of their ability, or
- Not being the cause of wipes
The only possible method of justifying deleting their Forged gear to their group, [while still keeping the 2 VERY common raider mindsets above] involves them convincing their entire group to allow them to do so, or have their entire group agree to do so as well. Both of which are difficult or self contradictory.)
On a personal note, I agree with that idea almost entirely. I think a much better path to explore would be supplying players that do ‘easier’ content with more unique but still desirable rewards. High-end players are catered to in their rewards quite well via better performing gear. The core problem with simply giving the ‘easier’ goals better or more appropriate rewards is dev time. Things that are desirable rewards in WoW beyond BIG NUMBERS take time effort and money to make.
No it wasn’t.
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/22757604
“By Mists of Pandaria, a guild progressing through a raid zone over the course of a couple of months could reach a point where they were fully equipped with gear from that tier, before having finished the zone. Lacking individual motivation or excitement about rewards when raiding, even if the encounters themselves were still fun, meant a lack of continued progression for the group. If you were stuck on Sha of Fear, there was no real expectation that your group would get any stronger week over week to help you overcome that hurdle. That gave rise to Thunderforging as a system in Patch 5.2, which evolved into the system we know today.”
It was added as an addition to the existing progression system as a way to try and boost people past content they couldn’t complete by giving them an arbitrary chance at a power boost. Same general concept as the Re-origination Array stacks we got in Uldir.