Titanforging and Warforging make me upset

[Avagon-sisters-of-elune]

We shouldn’t only be worried about what the “average” player experiences but also what the farthest oddities of the system produce.

That depends. In a system built upon probabilities, are you going to manually intervene when someone gets super lucky? Because Blizzard I’m sure doesn’t want to. Is it worth it if that player is 1 in 1 billion? What about 1 in 1 million? Or 1 in say…50,000? But again, the reality is that we’re talking about hypotheticals here, not legitimate specific instances. Hell, people can’t even find a single player, right now, that’s 390 from doing only solo content and some of them are pretending that there are people out there that are over 400 from it.

It’s perfectly plausible for someone to reach very near 390 with just the WQ system alone. Considering the rewards are constantly positioned 5ilvl above the player’s current progress; up to a maximum of 385.

This is objectively wrong. WQ rewards do not scale up to 385. Emissary quests do. Mythic dungeon quests that crop up once a week or so are 370 when they reward gear, the same as invasions. But again, I’ve never said people won’t hit 390 or that I even have a problem with it if they do. In fact, I think it’s great they have content they can do that lets them slowly level up to the range of a normal raider. They’ll only catch up to normal raiders if normal raiders stop progressing through content anyways because they both have access to the same gear from outside raids.

Does that clarify my position?

[Normercy-aggramar (Normercy)]

Dont be dramatic. There may be a couple people out there that have been unparalleled in their luck and have actually achieved a great ilvl. But you act like its happening at a rate that means anything or would make a “raider” decide it would be more efficient to run LFR.

Its not , and any real raider with 1/2 a brain knows this.

[Copedogg-alexstrasza]

I didn’t say he was. You can show someone a flaw in their logic without saying their personal opinion is invalid.

[Juggs-andorhal (Juggs)]

I believe this reason right here you listed is one of the main things capping TF, and allowing you have MoP style upgrades solves.

I’ve said it before, but to start, gear from each difficulty tier/curve should cap to a +10 item level TF. In our current landscape this would look like:

LFR 370 - 380
Normal 385 - 395
Heroic 400 - 410
Mythic 415 - 425

When Items drop you have a chance at a WF (+5) or a TF (+10). Additionally, throughout your grind of the content you get some form of currency that you can use to upgrade baseline items up to the TF cap of +10.

You would probably have to add some sort of scaling like Titan Residuum has depending on the content you are doing. This way you can’t farm super easy content to get the same upgrade level on gear from a higher content difficulty (Mythic raiders don’t feel the need to have to go clear LFR, Normal, Heroic, just to get upgrade currency.

You can do this by making the currency a token that can only be used on the same quality gear or by scaling the drop rates depending on difficulty.

LFR drops 5 currency per wing (20 per week) - LFR Token cost 20
Normal drops 5 per boss (40 per week) - Normal Token cost 50
Heroic drops 20 per boss (160 per week) - Heroic Token cost 200
Mythic drops 50 per boss (400 per week) - Mythic Token cost 500

Mythic+ Cache rewards can also provide currency.
+5 gives 5 per week
+10 gives 20 per week
+15 gives 50 per week

As you can see, you won’t get enough for an upgrade per week by only doing the 1 raid difficulty, but if you do a couple bosses of the difficulty below, you’ll have enough for a +5 item level token.

Side note on Mythic+ Cache rewards:

1. Cap at 410 - 420 Just like raid gear.

2. Instead of it being super random, it would be nice to be presented with three random items and you get to pick one. The RNG won’t be completely removed nor the suspense and excitement, but you’ll also have agency in your gearing choices and hopefully walk away with something at least semi useful. Think of it like a draw three cards from the deck and choose one type of system.

Now, I literally just brainstormed this as I’m eating my breakfast, but a system like this would be easy enough to implement.

[Tareir-arthas (Tareir)]

It would ideally but quite frankly some players can’t improve. No matter how much you try to get them to they don’t improve. They are still good people so we make do with slow progression and as you put it “draining” encounters sometimes.

Respectfully, we have difficulty options for a reason. Those players might be a better fit for LFR or Normal. Why do we have to have TF as a way to bring players along to content not designed for them? Maybe we should have TF go even higher and be more frequent so people don’t miss out on Mythic bosses?

[Provemewrong-uldum]

How do people expect others to get good enough gear to start doing heroic or mythic raids?

Thankfully blizzard realizes to be able to do these raids an alternate source from which to get good enough gear is needed. That includes tf or wf.

You guys state you care about mythic raiding but are letting it die by gating it from others.

I don’t think many people actually care if tf upsets you. I think they just want to get better gear.

[Léhk-stormrage]

jesus the cm sounds like the biggest casual. also sounds like hes purposefully missing the arguments, dont blame him though.

[Tareir-arthas (Tareir)]

jesus the cm sounds like the biggest casual. also sounds like hes purposefully missing the arguments, dont blame him though.

He’s at least bringing visibility to it. It’s also fine to be a “big casual”

That said, yeah, does seem to be quoting and responding to the easiest comments to argue against rather than most people’s issues with it which are more reasonable.

[Evelolyn-area-52]

did you play Vanilla?

[Akaidian-earthen-ring (Akaidian)]

“Everyone deserves a top tier quality life!”

No. Games can be designed in such a way that if you refuse to rise to the challenge or just don’t like the way they play, you don’t get advancement. Wow made the mistake of attempting to find a way to reward braindead content to provide a path forward, using extreme RNG to increase the time, instead of developing harder content that just naturally takes more time to clear.

[Evelolyn-area-52]

I think you may be confusing two objectives.

1. Reward players who do the most challenging content with high end rewards (this is a staple for WoW since launch… i.e., raids, dungeons, etc.)
2. Provide repeatable content for casuals with the opportunity to achieve gear that will help with further WQ’s and create the sense of progression.

You do not have to participate in both to enjoy the game, but you can if you feel the need.

[Akaidian-earthen-ring (Akaidian)]

You basically have to or accept that you’re gimped if you “enjoy” the game the way I choose to (by stroking epeen and competing on meters).

[Gimbob-uldaman]

Honestly i think there needs to be a hard cap with titanforge like they have in timewalking, make it limited to 15 item levels max, we already have a limit on weapons only able to get 10 ilvl warforge, why not enforce this same thing with trinkets and then 15 ilvl titanforge on other gear? This would make it so its only limited to the next tier up or close to it, so a normal raid drop would only 400 max(385 base) or 395 if its a weapon or trinket that way its not too big of a power jump. this honestly to me feels the most rewarding and fair thing.
Seeing someone run lfr or normal or even a mythic 2 and pulling a 420 item is just stupid. Call me salty all you want but those who do the hardest content should reap the best rewards, not some random getting lucky.

[Evelolyn-area-52]

But we don’t have to enjoy the game in the same way. I don’t raid anymore, other than an LFR or two… My focus is totally different these days, and has changed significantly over the years. However, do I run casual content that I wouldn’t otherwise because there is an opportunity for progression… yes, yes I do.

[Evelolyn-area-52]

I am not sure I understand this mentality. If they aren’t raiding or doing PvP, who cares what gear they are wearing… So they have a 415 Waist, but have never raided Mythic. How does that matter to you in the least?

[Akaidian-earthen-ring (Akaidian)]

That’s fine, but if you don’t see how having casino gear available in addition to normal methods of gearing for someone who does what I do is as far as competition goes, then IDK what to say.

If they somehow stop the double dipping of players who actually do hard stuff going and doing the no-aspiration faceroll stuff for additional casino lever pulls, I’ll shut up about WF/TF.

Bring back unique stats to those activities that make other gear pointless for them (hello resilience, etc) and that would solve that.

[Evelolyn-area-52]

I can understand how it could be frustrating thinking you need to run content that “may” provide an upgrade, especially since in the past, that wasn’t the case.

And, add that casuals are getting gear that you “need” and they aren’t even going to use it for the toughest content, can make one bitter… to an extent.

But, in the end, WoW is a game of choices. You can still raid without the need for doing “lever pulls” in the hopes of getting better gear.

If you just progressed like you did in the past and ignored the bells and shiny lights quests… I think you would still have the same experience as before. However, everyone wants things faster now, and when it doesn’t happen, we get “mad”.

[Akaidian-earthen-ring (Akaidian)]

You’re ignoring that “progression” isn’t my goal, otherwise you’d be right. My game enjoyment directly hinges on what others have access to, and is best served with static rewards. Progression is irrelevant. Whether I’m ilvl 200 while everyone else is also 200, or that number gets bumped to 600, 1000, 1009093, etc. It doesn’t matter. All that matters is that I’m proportionately with other people and the people I’m competing against aren’t getting lucky and having that reflected in their performance.

[Evelolyn-area-52]

Having access to things in the game is “progression”. Regardless if it is related to raiding, mythics, pet battles/collecting, professions, etc…

[Evelolyn-area-52]

All that matters is that I’m proportionately with other people and the people I’m competing against

Who are you competing with?