Timeline Shenanigans

Community General Discussion
21

I have hear folks complain about WoW’s handling of timelines for a long time but… honestly, it is actually pretty good. Because it is consistent in that we can affect other timelines, we can bring things in from other times and also put things into other timelines. The job of the bronze dragonflight is to essentially be custodians that enable timelines to continue unimpeded, but that doesn’t mean they can’t be changed. This is what we got confirmation of when interacting with the Infinite dragonflight in Dragonflight.

For a better resource, watch this video by Minutephysics:

WoW’s type of time travel is a combination of both multiple dimensions where we can interact with objects back and forth completely. But also that different dimensions can be at different stages in time, meaning that they have progressed as they would normally because that’s what happened in their timeline.

In essence, we have a mixture of Harry Potter and Back to the Future types of time travel (with a slight bit of Primer in there because of the need of a functional portal), and the timelines reflect that. In a dimension where the timeline progressed differently, it progressed differently and continues from that point forward. But in terms of how we interact with a timeline, of course it happens one way or another because that is what happened. Not necessarily in our dimension or in such a way where we could see it happening, but characters like Broxigor and items like the Dragonsoul is why these things work.

As long as a timeline continues as it is supposed to, the Bronze flight’s mission is upheld. And that is also reflected in how we are able to interact with different timelines and different dimensions both in-universe and in-game.
So… to answer your question of,

The timelines doesn’t disappear, but you do remain dead in that timeline dimension. At most when a “timeline disappears”, it simply means it is now inaccessible through more conventional means of travel.

Argus acted as a Primer-styled time machine, much like how the Twisting Nether also acts as a Primer. Effectively yes, there’s infinite versions of everything in the Warcraft universe but that’s also what makes the timeways so unstable when messed with.

So for certain infinites, it is likely that the simple answer is that Demons can make use of the Twisting Nether as a Primer. Similarly how the Dark Portal acts as a Primer to other Dark Portals, and the Timeways converge in the Caverns of Time which acts as a Primer for other timelines. Is it possible as a direct result to find another Argus? Sure… if we could get to it. Which we might not be able to because we have now lost Argus, and we have no ideas whether we can go to Argus when we have no Argus ourselves.

Of course most of this gets hand waved away but because of how Warcraft has handled both time travel and multiple dimensions … it is honestly still consistent with itself. Not perhaps as logical as one would prefer it to be but, still consistent as far as we aware … and we can only become aware of its inconsistency if we were to travel to Argus again - either before, after, or during its corruption.

22

WoW’s timelines have one major flaw: They all share a single Shadowlands and a single Twisting Nether.

The official explanation is as follows:

The way I would have you think about it is think of a rope… If you look at a rope, it is one thing, right? It’s something that you can grab onto, you can hold it, you can see it; think of that as a character. Think of that rope as Draka or Velen.

If you look at that rope more closely, you can see there are different threads that make up the rope. There are different twines that pull together, and you can pull off one of these threads if you want. But it’s still a rope, and each of those threads you can think of as one of the realities of the character, one of the streams of time… There is a thread that is the Draka from Draenor we visited in the Warlords of Draenor. There is another thread that is Draka on Azeroth as we know her… And there are many other threads that could be other realities that we never peered into. But all of those threads at some time come together to make that rope. And remember also that, as you’ll see, that there are many characters in the Shadowlands when they refer to time, they usually say that time is not a construct of Death. Time and Death are not related. Death is about eternity, not linear time. The manner in which these threads come together, that can take a very long time from mortal perceptions. Those threads can be separated for a time, but sooner or later, they do combine to make one rope that is that character. You can think of it as the threads of that rope, all the individual threads, are just waiting. And over time, they will come together but they can exist as separate entities for a time. That still doesn’t change the fact that they are part of one rope.

Arthas became the Lich King and his soul was destroyed. That is canon. But what about all the versions of Arthas that did not become the Lich King? Were they destroyed too, even though they committed no crime and never did anything with the Jailer’s power?

What about all the versions of Archimonde that never became Demons?

It just doesn’t make sense.

23

Your deeds of valor will be forgotten

:ocean: :dragon: :ocean: :dragon:

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24

A lot of what you said is actually not how the WoW timelines work. For example, AU Draenor timeline was collapsing when we go recruit the Maghar. It’s been outright stated that AU timelines pop in and out of existence, and are unable to sustain themselves. This is why Bronze Dragons try to protect the main timeline, and don’t care about alternates. It’s also why Sargeras and the Legion as a whole don’t care about alternative Azeroths, and are primarily focused on the main Azeroth. This is likely going to be handwaved away with another cavalcade of retcons when Blizzard inevitably decides they want to use Yrel again, but for the moment that’s the current state of AU Draenor.

For that reason I largely don’t want to continue debating how WoW does time travel, as it will inevitably be changed to fit the current story. However, there is one main point in your post I want to directly touch upon, as it is the one thing that is most directly and obviously shown ingame:

Argus is not lost. It is, in fact, very easily accessible with the Vindicaar apparently. Believe me, I thought the exact same you did, I assumed Argus was lost and its current state unknown. But then, very recently, Draenei got the Manari recruitment thing, which both Alliance and Horde can do the unlock quest for. And said quest begins with Velen very casually mentioning that they’ve been in contact with the Lost tribes on Argus this entire time and their chieftain requested Velens presence, so you and Velen very casually take a trip to Argus to meet with the chieftain and get introduced to the leader if the repentant Manari.

So… yeah… apparently we’re able to go to and from Argus whenever we want, and have been able to all this time.

25

People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually, from a nonlinear, non-subjective viewpoint, it’s more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey… stuff.

26

I prefer the Jeremy Bearimy effect.

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27

You’re dead and you cease to exist. So, you don’t go to the Maw with the other elves, you just cease to exist.

28

Disproven by Garrosh’s presence in the Maw despite him dieing in Alternate Draenor Nagrand

29

If there are multiple timelines and universes attached to the maw, how do we know that that’s the same Garrosh? Also, alternate Draenor Nagrand still exists as far as I know.

30

If The Legion transcends all time lines; there is only one legion, how could the time rifts take us to a time line conquered by The Legion?

Wouldn’t they just stay there? Or was that their practice time-line.

31

These are good questions… questions that Blizzard never asked.

Blizzard should never have messed with time travel, it’s absolutely terrible for movies or games because it over complicates everything.

For example, Blizzard inadvertently made Chromie the absolute most important character in WoW. She’s associated with literally every major event and every major event gets resolved because of her… this is moronic and should never have happened.

32

How did they even conquer that time line? If there’s just one Legion than anyone we killed between WoD and Legion wouldn’t be available in ANY timeline.

That’s the whole leadership of The Legion in a blow that was severe enough to totally decapitate The Legion in our (and thus every) time-line.

They’re so hopelessly defeated that eredar demons are begging Velen for sanctuary.

33

Because, according to Blizzard, there’s only one of every character, even across all timelines. The character is like a rope, and every timeline’s version of that character is a thread of that hope.

So yeah, when Garrosh’s soul self-destructed in that Raid it wasn’t just our Garrosh that ceased to exist, it was every Garrosh that has ever been and will ever be :smiley:

34

I felt that on my hardcore classic dorf. The frost trolls got you good ;-;

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35

If you travel back in time and die in another timeline, your past version will still go on to become you then travel back in time and die. GG, time loop, rest in pepperonis.

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36

T’was the murlocs. Of Westfall. If not them, it was those little dragons of red ridge

:ocean: :dragon: :ocean: :dragon:

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37

Oh those russians Murlocs!

(Mods this is a Rasputin reference)

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38

So… How many selves can a bronze dragon group together with before they are told to stop?