Blizz needs to rein in all this CC, you easily lose control of your character for minutes at a time in CC chains that require no skill to pull off since they are baked into the rotations. Diso, grips, stuns, interrupts, blanket silence, good luck getting control of your char. Put every CC and diso on the same DR.
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It only happened when m+ was introduced into the game.
And it cant change because of m+. They would need to rethink the entire design of m+ in order to bring the classes back down to reality cc wise.
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this is true! but here’s the context…Ion took over 2016…pulled all resources from pvp and started making wow into a pay to win. fast quick runs enter tokens with m+ and token sales carries for gold were in full swing. The loot trough that is m+ can never be closed. Ion kept his job all through the cubicle crawls and cosby suites and keg stands because of one reason only…token sales. m+ screwed every single part of wow. itll never go away as long as ion is in charge.
PS: if it’s not evident…look at the new dungeons…3 bosses only, super fast! super simple!!! designed for one thing in mind…fast gold carries…token sales will be off the charts!!
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it is possible to fix it
It’s called DR works per victirm, not per caster—the same kinda stuff that keeps people from locking down NPCs/mobs to the point where they can’t cast/attack at all until they’re dead should apply to players.
THis is something that honestly should have happened years ago. A player shoiuld NOT be able to be cc’d more than 2x in the same “battle” before DR kicks in and makes them immune to all forms of CC for x amount of seconds.
why is this not already a thing?
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That’s how DR already works. If you get feared, the next fear effect applied to you will be half duration, the next one 1/4th, and then you’re immune.
However there are multiple DR categories so you can get incapacitated 3x, disoriented 3x, stunned 3x, and then rooted 3x in a row if you’re unlucky enough.
CC has been reduced over time (categories condensed, pvp durations lowered, etc) but it’s still too much. It’s frustrating to sit there in a fear > fear > stun > disorient > root combo while you watch the guy you had at 10% slowly get healed back up to full while you’re stuck there unable to do anything because you only have one CC break on a 2 minute cooldown you had used to get them to 10% in the first place.
Yes, yes, I know someone will say it’s a skill issue but most of these CCs are AOE effects and if I want to be in range to attack someone, I’m kind of in range of all that CC as well.
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Leynia
I wasn’t trying to say you’re wrong, I just meant that I want to see the effects be even less than that. ALL forms of CC should be on the same DR period. THis would require that arena teams, for example actually PAY ATTENTION to their CC instead of just blindly casting any form of it on CD as they already do.
Basically I’m saying that ALL forms of CC should just share the same cooldown period. I think it would vastly change how PVP works and require a lot more skill/planning than it has.
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It feels bad to have your application of CC fail on an enemy, but yeah DRs should be the same for all CC, no variations of category. If someone is slowed and snared a bunch let them be on DR for fear and stun and vise versa.
you know what would happen no? classes would not use their kit because they trigger the stun DR
not all CC is made equal
on topic, some AOE CC is definitely silly
at least cap it.
those AOE fears that affect the entire raid are quite silly
Not addressing the large volume of consecutive CC one person can be under is an option. I’d rather find a solution that is another option.
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Welp, they need to rethink Mythic + . The current design of AoE and constant CC is trash. Sometimes I with they would just do a hard reset of Retail completely….
They can keep the CC spamming for M+ if enemy casts are going to hit dps and healers hard but put all CC on the same Dimminishing Returns for players and it is fixed. They can keep everyone having several CC options in their spellbook, but if they use 3 CCs on a player the affected player if they are even alive after 3 CCs, should have a short period of CC immunity.
Nah you dont need to do anything like that. They can find a way to just alter the ability in pvp (ie their pvp specific tuning can probably do this if they wanted it to) so there is no aoe cc from certain things if it is a massive concern. I think micro cc feels absolutely awful at this point, i dont mind regular CC having a big presence but micro cc just feels like theres 20 interrupts in the game for casters/healers while melee interrupts are also usually on short cds. And micro cc is not skill expression either which is why its bad.
Neither Ret or Priests or Warriors or Hunters desire sitting in 2 minutes of crowd control per 15min battleground. We cant walk much and when we can we are going the wrong way due to a fear. Consolidation of DRs is my best idea. Even with every spec only having one CC, a well organized or script running BG team could just take turns CCing the same poor guy if we just limit ability quantity and ignore the lack of DR issue.
I disagree I think the DR system is quite good as is, the problem is specifically how much micro CC is available. CC mattering in pvp is important otherwise it is literally just pve until someone dies and consolidating DRs would do exactly that. They need to find a way to tone down micro CC in pvp without it effecting m+ if they dont want it to.
You’re right, CC matters, knockbacks matter, disarms matter, a rogue taking someone to the shadow realm matters, warlocks teliporting half his enemys into a wall matters. It all matters. How many seconds of loss of movement control for a single character should be happening per 1 min period? The whole minute? 3/4ths of a minute? Half a minute? 20 seconds? Thats where the players dont agree.
Druid Mrcastsclone and Rogue Gotchabish say, “All the seconds, delete DR, get good scrubs” while Paladin SeniorSmitesalot and Hunter Trapsgalore lean towards suggeting maybe 30seconds per min of loss of player control is appropriate and then, CC immune for 30 seconds. The later seems more reasonable to me. Where or who the CC came from matters less than the fact that you died in a stun right after surviving a mind control and 2 fears consecutively.
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I mean a lot of classes have the ability to also outplay cc, on top of a lot of cc being dispellable. When it comes to rogues they should probably be doing less damage than most dps if they are going to have double/triple the amount of CC everyone else does that is something I personally agree with, that or they need to be squishier than other dps. It takes skill to play a rogue for sure but cant have a class or spec throwing out as much cc as an entire team can by themselves while also pumping damage and being annoying to kill.
But watering down CC because you dislike micro CC is not the solution. If everything shared DR, it would be pve. This has nothing to do with how long someone is in cc, that is always adjustable by increasing the CD of certain CCs or reducing the duration, it has to do with how much micro CC basically allows for constant stops/interrupts on top of regular CC and regular interrupts. That is the issue, and most people dislike micro CC a lot to begin with. DR should not be touched, it works well already, micro CC needs to go as much as possible, they just need to get rid of it from pvp and then tune things from there.
Nobody is in CC for an entire minute btw. Not even 30 seconds. That is what DR already ensures. At most people sit cc for 15 or so seconds in the comp with the best possible control (usually rmp or rmx) without trinketing or getting dispelled or playing pillar, but if you do any of those 3 things you reduce that time. I will say DK right now feels a bit too oppressive with chains of ice (and chains from their rider guy too)+strang+mind freeze+blinding sleet+double grip, that has felt quite bad so far imo.
I’d make trinket give you 3 secs of immunity after use. I think some classes should have CC immunity buttons as well.
The big offenders are roots/snares. They need to increase DRs and also no snare can reduce movement below 50% in PvP.
Also how many deathgrips do DK’s have now. There are too many knock backs, and yanking your char all over. Get rid of most of that too.
With that said game is designed around M+ and Delves now so that is the reason for Aoe and Aoe CC.
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Yes micro CC is not a reasonable amount, when added to the 4 to 6 second ccs we already deal with, and spamable slows and snares. My point was just that all CC contributes to all CC you do suffer from and the total amount of time in a match you cant walk at normal speed.
Im not saying some cc good for game, some cc bad for game. My opinion is the cc volume that is typical to receive in a BG leaves players in cc for a larger total percentage of the match than is healthy. I dont know of a better solution than shared DRs because I feel just removing the very short duration ccs from the game wont be enough to raise player freedom of movement time per match enough. As it is now you may die in one cc, bam, you rez, no more DR. Even if DR persisted through death, by the time your in combat any DR would have fell off. If you dont die to the 3rd consecutive CC your saying the player deserves a 4th by having it be from a different DR school, I disagree.
A lot of CC is dispellable and you have 3 healers to dispel you (2 in blitz), people should typically not be sitting in CC too long in bgs. If you are, your healers are probably not dispelling and maybe you or your fellow dps are holding trinkets too long as well for the things healers cant get you out of.
And no thats not what I’m saying, what I’m saying is if you get cced for the third consecutive time and you are fully sitting all 3 of those CCs, someone is doing something wrong whether its you or your healers. Also in BGs there is so much DR overlap usually you do not sit 4 full CCs that are not DRed lol, this is a crazy scenario that is only likely happening due to playing badly, and I do not think things need to be removed or changed due to poor play.
You are not getting CCed 4 times in a row in a BG with none of those CCs DRing each other, and you also have dispels+trinket available for a chain like that, on top of personals to survive maybe sitting the first or second CC if it gets there. If you just sat 4 full CCs in a BG like that it was bad play by you and/or others. You are complaining about something that is a problem (micro CC) but your solution is extremely bad and would only harm pvp, especially in Arena but even in BGs if all CC was just 1 Dr it would be awful. Just a terrible solution.
Cc chains are not an issue. They have nerfed CC durations a lot over the years.
I think really the only issue is micro instant Cc that allows for uncounterable application of full duration CCs. They also act as pseudo interrupts. So if you get your kick faked, it’s okay because you have an incapacitate, a stun, and a knock ready to go.
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