So in 10.2 we will apparently now also get great vault rewards for heroic dungeons. That’s jolly good!
I really hope that this leads to another type of dungeon progression. Heroic +, if you will. I have zero interest in Mythic +. Timers and affixes are the very definition of tediousness to me. However I do like running good old heroic dungeons. The trouble is of course you very quickly outgear them. What I would love is an option of a standard dungeon with ever increasing difficulty through simple scaling. Each difficulty level the mobs just have more health and hit harder. Where the objective becomes not about pulling fast and getting through groups quickly. But pulling strategically. Even utilising some of that oft neglected crowd control.
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I never will understand the timers.
If you’re spending over 40 minutes in a dungeon something is usually wrong anyway. Even if you’re just sight seeing… idk, maybe just me.
I would definitely prefer harder dungeons in terms of actually needing to use CC and assists again. I’m not really a fan of the timers either, myself.
5 Likes
This is pretty much M+ without the timer. It would be nice to have a mode like that though.
Heroic+ with an auto queue, no timers or affixs. Oh I’m there.
Then the M+ crowd won’t have anything to complain about, it wouldn’t change their mode at all.
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Okay, so assuming m+ will be much harder and heroic + will take current difficulties place (will read the article soon lols)? Sounds interesting, someone wont like it though haha.
They have Chris Metzen at the helm, so I’d have to assume there is a method to this madness.
ACTUALLY, with the minimal reading I just did, this could be great for casual players or people with limited time?
Oh, if it provides loot equivalent to M+, even if it takes longer, they will find a way or reason to complain.
so m+ but you think it’ll somehow be advantageous to do it slowly. interesting!
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It’s super weird considering I spend about 10-15min in time walking/heroic but 20-30min in m+ yet “m+ is the cause of gogogo”
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I think that could be fun. Offering vault rewards for heroic makes sense. I’m not sure how heroic+ could be balanced using the same dungeons as mythic+, without just increasing the level by 5 or something and removing the timer.
What I would do is mini+. It is like 25% of the trash count, one boss, and solo queue with matchmaking rating that increases or decreases but score that only increases or stays the same like now. In this mode, every healer has brez and can dispel every type and every tank has lust and an aoe stun. The amount by which you beat the timer would be what increases your score. If you barely beat the timer, your score stays the same because that seems like you are at the right level. Your score does not decrease for failure like solo shuffle but your MMR does so if you leave or fail a bunch of keys, you get put with worse players until you prove yourself again. The level is no longer discrete but continuous and determined by the group’s average MMR. People with similar MMR will be paired together.
the players who would otherwise find this most appealing will absolutely hate this
The system designers are trying to do everything but fix the actual problem.
They’re in super denial that the weekly vault FOMO itself is hot garbage.
They’re in denial about timegate driving off people and would rather believe content is too hard or not accessible enough.
Same with raid lockouts still existing.
Same with meaningful choice 2.0 aka timegated DF professions.
Same with bag filling currency items making you waste time traveling around for turn ins and crafting, a la airport oribos 2.0.
Same with pushing “group” events in open world excessively when people tend to do solo stuff like professions and World Quests solo when they don’t want to bother with other people.
Same with tier being used as subscription drag out bait, because raid lockouts and vault fomo weeklies weren’t bad enough on their own.
Honestly I think at this point it’s sabotage on purpose.
If they made gearing an actual feel good grinding experience and not do a “pretend grind” where only the starting low ilvl is grindable with everything above being a timegate cliche, the game would be fairing 1000x better.
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Or…now hear me out here…or…they could do what I told them to do several years ago and stick M0 on the LFG.
This can’t be a thing in modern wow. There is no universe where the answer isn’t to just pop cooldowns and kill the pack before it does something dangerous.
from the article
“…Great Vault Rewards Current Level Heroic - The item level of this reward will be based on the lowest of your top 1/4/8 runs this week (currently Heroic)…”
So it still rewards heroic dungeon gear.
also from the article
“…Great Vault Rewards Heroic Improve - Complete 1/4/8 dungeons on Mythic Difficulty to improve your reward…”
Still have to do mytics to get mythic gear.
I think the problems will be with this " The item level of this reward will be based on the lowest of your top 1/4/8 runs this week"
The way I read that it means that if you do just 1 heroic dungeon all of your mythics will be for nothing. Your reward will be based on the lowest you did. So mythic players won’t be doing the weekly for the 5 heroics, if that’s going to still be a thing.
I didn’t see any item levels posted in the article, so I might be totally wrong.
ilvl in this game has lost any sense of value.
It’s mobile game systems design not worth engaging with.
Like congrats on playing the weekly timegates?
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No need for them anyways. You can still get rewards even if you don’t make time. They basically are only there to say you did it.
Looks a lot like the present system, just extended to include heroics. That is, I’d be surprised if it didn’t work similarly to the raid vault.
Presently, key vaults work like this; suppose you did 4, 6, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15, and 27 this week:
- Your first vault will award a max-level item (due to the 27).
- Second vault will award a 13 item (as it was the lowest of the top four).
- Third vault will award a 4 item (lowest of the top 8)…
If you run again and time a 9, it bumps the 4 off the list and your third vault will instead be from a mythic 6 key.
So, by extension, I believe if you run:
M5, M3, M3, Heroic, you will earn:
- 1st vault: M5
- 2nd vault: H
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The players you are grouping with would also be lower score than your maximum score (with their mmr about the same as your mmr to clarify) but they wouldn’t be significantly worse. The idea is that people get about the same amount of failed keys so the people who would have a lower score than you in raider IO would also go down in matchmaking. The idea is to not punish people for failing but to ensure that they are doing M+ levels appropriate for them. It would not be like pug keystones nowadays, everyone paired with you would have a similar skill as you. If you are meant to be higher rated, you would go up. But like in pvp, if you can get on a win streak, this will help you get put into groups with better players so you have chances to go up and prove yourself as long as you keep trying. Worst case scenario, we add some sort of failsafe where your MMR can’t go below 500 less than the highest score you’ve reached on that spec that season.