I’d like to talk about Tier sets. Current iterration of them is quite interesting but also cause a bunch of issues. I’d like to talk through different iterration of them and find the best solution:
- First iterration of sets was that we had PvP sets and PvE sets. PvE sets were usually damage oriented and PvP sets were utility oriented. Good example are Wrath sets:
Some extra attack power and shorter disarm duration.
PvE gear from the same time as an example.
These passive more or less stayed like that for the next expansions until MoP.
- In Warlords of Draenor Blizzard changed set bonuses in PvP for the first time however they were still utility based. Good example is Warrior set:
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No PvP sets - from Legion to 3rd season of Shadowlands.
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Shared PvE and PvP sets. While it is sometimes fun to change your playstyle completely like what happened to Enhancement Shamans from playing Ascendance and Thorim’s Invocation oriented build to Lava Lash and Primordial Wave oriented one. However sets also created some issues. Good example is a R Druid that was weak last season then buffed to the oblivion with addition of Treants and now nerfed hard again duje to an amazing set bonus. I’ll try to sum it up:
Positives:
-chance for a fresh new playstyle each season
-every build will be viable at one point
-more interesting and complex rotations
Negatives:
-some set bonuses are not worth wearing (Feral last season, R Shaman last season etc.) and players instead prefer to get crafted gear for better stats
-you’re locked for the certain playstyle whole season
-potentil one shot mechanics
-balancing nightmare
In my opinion current itteration of sets creates more issues than benefits. So what should be done about it? In my opinion we should go back to early WoW way of having separate PvP sets that will be more utility oriented. Like 5 yards more range on Wind Shear or 50% shorter disarms. With PvP scaling there is a very small chance that someone would ever bring PvE sets into PvP unless it’s a mythic raider who decided to PvP. We will save people some disappointments of seeing a set bonus that is really weak or one that actually lowers your damage in PvP (Outlaw set last season). What are your opinions?
They should just make it the warmode set bonus, something universally decent, so I don’t need to carry around additional armor sets to be optimal when 50% disarm reduction becomes useless
How is it useless if it scales up in PvP?
Because if I’m in solo shuffle against ret/dh/dk, disarm reduction does absolutely nothing and so would need different gear with better stats to play optimally, ie crafted gear
It’s still a PvP piece that scales up xD Jesus since when people became that sweaty xD Would you really farm Mythic Raid piece just because there is no WW or Arms?
Oh bummer, I thought this was gonna be a thread about the aesthetics of the current tier sets. Warrior & Druid are the worst and DK/Lock/DH are the best IMO.
I think tier sets are fun, and I actually enjoy when they change gameplay (this season spriest tier as an example) but absolutely are not designed with pvp in mind. I’d really like to see pvp specific tier sets or no tier sets at all.
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Conquest gear catalyzed to tier is also pvp gear that scale up
You didn’t get the idea. What I said at the end would mean that there is no catalyst and it would be the only available PvP set. 4 set instead of being 50% shorter disarm could be any other utility thing like shorter CD on HP shout. Whatever.
This is all meant as a counterpoint to your negative that some set bonuses aren’t worth using. Then every set bonus should be universally good, and preferably balanced. The warmode bonus accomplishes that imo without going overboard. If the set bonus is utility based, there will be instances where it’s worthless and defeats the purpose of having a pvp specific bonus
But they aren’t. Last season on Feral it was more worth to craft all pieces and stack mastery on Feral, R Shaman and Outlaw Rogue. Why because sets didn’t give that much or were built about spells that aren’t practical in PvP like healing Raid. Worst case was Outlaw Rogue where set in fact meant DPS loss and broke your CC. Sets aren’t designed around PvP in mind. They are just designed and then Blizzard takes a look at how the meta shifted and nerfs buffs specs. R Druid is the best example of it. It got buffed last season because it struggled and got one of the best if not the best set bonus so it needed a massive nerf. It will cause issues next expansion when the set will be gone and R Druid will most likely need some buffs. That’s my point. With PvP oriented sets like these examples I posted (not 1:1 the same ones) you avoid such thing. I wouldn’t even mind if it was like in MoP 1 set bonus shared between seasons. Blizzard by maintaining current set bonus forms is forcing itself into impossible task of making sets good in every content. There is no bigger disappointment than reading your set bonus and knowing you’re not going to use it like Healing Rain one.
There are two things - what you wish for and reality. In ideal world Blizzard would balance things idealy. From 19 years of this game existence we know it’s almost impossible and rarely happens even though they try hard.
I guess when I said counterpoint that’s not really what I meant. I’m saying that creating a set bonus that is situationally good is just as bad if not worse than a set bonus that is always bad. Instead of just using the set or not using the set, now you have to sometimes use the set and sometimes not use the set, meaning you would need double the gear to play optimally. So the set bonus needs to be universally good, ie the warmode 2/4 set bonuses.
But we have Warmode sets. They are the Bloody Tokens one. Also 50% Disarm reduction wasn’t a waste because there was that “Weapon enchant” called weapon chain that most players played anyway and Warriors could just skip it. It was also one of the set bonuses - the other was always useful. If you are someone who is tryharding that much with cap being removed you could get 2 crafted pieces - create a gear set to swap between. And it’s done by 2 clicks. I don’t think there is something wrong about it. It was just an example. Imo it’s still better than Healing Rain set bonus or one that actually lowers your dps in PvP.
Its supposed to be intercept cd reduced by 5s they made it a redundant 50% disarm after removing intercept.
Disarm reduction was an arms talent in wotlk
The proper set bonus would probably be like minus 3s on stormbolt cd
Overall i entirely agree that old style arena set bonuses need to return. But its pretty obvious that some old examples didnt survive years of maiming their design throgh squishes and class overhauls.
Worth noting that glove slot also had an equip bonus for pvp back then too.
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Good example. But still I don’t say it has to be 1:1 the same set bonus. It can be something else. It’s not my job to design it. I leave it in Blizzard hands as it’s their job but I find it more reasonable than another Chain Heal or Healing Rain based R Shaman set.
Yeah absolutely doesnt need to be the same one.