So is it just me or if you do a 5man/10man without a shaman to buff alpha or paladins giving out salvations, threat is getting worse in SoD with how OP dps is with updated gear/runes?
Like we did a kara crypts run with a warrior tank and spriest/boomie threat is just crazy, even though the warrior was geared. I see this often with other tanks too all the times in previous phases. Shaman tanks are OP as heck with holding threat (I hear paladins are great too), but if you don’t have one or another shaman to buff alpha, it just feels so bad.
Is it just me or does SoD team really need to revisit buffing threat for all tanks via some baseline, talent or rune when you’re in a group without a shaman/paladin??
And by the way, this isn’t about giving tanks 5-10secs to “build threat”, some classes as mentioned above just easily skyrocket on threat in SoD with how OP gear/runes are making them. Throw in the shoulder runes now in phase 7, I only see this getting worse.
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I play a pretty decently geared lock tank for my group and I don’t normally have issues. I feel like once I’ve establish threat properly on the target/targets no one is ripping anything off of me.
I did however struggle to maintain threat on the bosses in ZG the other day. And specifically only in ZG was it an issue. Every single boss felt like it had a threat drop even though I had tanked it fine weeks prior to that run.
So yeah idk. It feels fine in most places, and once in a while things don’t really seem to make sense.
Can’t wait to see DPS jerking threat straight off of tanks in Naxx though.
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I almost never forum post, but I google searched this issue and found this thread.
I have a Prot Warrior alt that feels absolutely horrible to tank with in Karazhan Crypts.
- You can’t charge into combat because you cannot see the mobs until they are within Charge range.
- All ranged DPS have to stay somewhat close to your torch, putting them inside the proximity threat of 110%, versus the ranged 130% threshold needed for ranged to rip threat, so all Mages / Boomkins / Spriests / Hunters just immediately rip off of you on every pull, no matter how you choose to open on the mob packs.
- I only have about 900 gearscore, mostly T2, AQ20 3-set, Suzerain, and some mid-tier trinkets. I still see Prot Warriors more geared than me struggle to hold threat on packs of 4 or more against Ranged classes. You basically have to incorporate letting your party members tank their own mobs at times while you struggle to gain a threat lead.
- I regularly 99-parsed in Classic on my Fury Prot, and the same situation on my Prot Paladin in Wrath Classic. I’ve never experienced such a weird situation. It could be that I am missing crucial gear pieces on my alt to make this smoother, but even having the Sentinel shoulder enchant from EPL didn’t entirely resolve my TPS issues.
It definitely feels like Warrior gets the short-end of the stick when it comes to tanks in SoD, and playing on Alliance, it’s pretty weak hearing about Shaman Tanks just being unstoppable juggernauts that absolutely pump damage and threat. Prot Paladins, Ferals, and Rogue tanks also easily outperform my Prot Warrior, usually.
I’m sure a good portion of the issue is me just being bad at SoD Prot War, but I don’t think tanking in this spec is supposed to feel like an insane mountain to climb just to perform at a moderate level and hold threat.
Every other tank class normally has something that makes them stand out, or they have great utility to offer the raid. Warrior is just a glorified off-tank now, from the looks of it and the logs I’ve checked for the high-end Prot Wars on WCL.
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Lots of mobs in Kara drop threat or use abilities that temporarily drop threat.
Besides that, stop running with bad tanks. I have 0 issues holding threat with my rogue tank who is in all T1/T2 pieces.
I tanked a kara without a shaman in the group and threat was a big problem, we had a few bosses where I had to have the dps wait like 10 seconds to get enough of a lead to not pull aggro. Now granted they were 3 of my guild’s highest dps, and I don’t normally tank, but I still know how to tank and can only do so much. Without alpha and windfury the numbers just aren’t there. AoE threat felt almost impossible and on single target if they started DPSing right away I was pretty much guaranteed to lose threat.
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yea druid AOE threat is omega screwed, single target we are great but AOE threat is ripped so easily beucase we only have 2 options swipe and lascerate (which takes 3-4 globals to build stacks) and then another global for swipe AND on undead mobs lascerate doesnt even work half the time spread becuase they are immune to bleeds… and yes ofc i have the +20% threat increase on my shoulders.
I’ve been trying to say this since phase two: there are problems with aggro, and if you want to avoid them, you must have X class with you at all times.
We have a lot of classes that provide buffs when you’re in the same group, and as a tank, if you can get them all, there are no issues. But as soon as you remove even a few, it becomes more and more obvious that DPS has to hold back to allow for initial threat buildup.
That said, you’ll often run into “fools” who go full max before you’ve even landed your first auto-attack—and that mentality simply can’t be removed from SoD DPS players.
Every time I’ve tried to bring this up—mind you, I created this character just to see if the EU forum was really as obsessed with tearing people down as it seems—I get flooded with responses like “skill issue” from people who never have logs or even a character to back up their claims.
Why threat even needs to be a mechanic is beyond me. No one finds it fun, but the devs refuse to listen to players. We’re getting a lot from the next expansion, but they never gave us the 800% extra threat that we were supposed to get. And since people refuse to hold back, if you’re fully buffed, you really need to be on top of your game to maintain aggro.
The worst part is that none of the people in charge of the game are actually listening. They only pay attention to a small handful of players, most of whom are in guilds where people actually know how to wait for the tank to get their buffs up and running (which should just be a permanent thing, rather than some arbitrary Y or X condition).
With what’s happening in Naxx and the gear we’re seeing, it’s only going to get worse. We’ve seen it time and time again—the devs are just too slow to fix the problem.
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simple fix is to gear your tanks first.
then they get the extra aggro and all is well.
aggro is a team effort btw. i like team play.
This is why I’m unable to play Affliction Warlock. Blizzard forgot that Warlocks have absolutely no threat control. No reduction, no drop, no wipe.
They’ve kept multiple fights with threat drops.
And somehow the band-aid to this is Pally salv or Shaman OP.
Meanwhile you will still tear threat away as Affli if your DoTs start to crit too hard, and you can’t “stop DPS” because your DoTs are all there. So all you can do is pull agro and die.
And so Warlocks are forced to play Demo to get that 20% passive threat reduction + 15% damage split with the pet. It’s just… baffling.
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Warlocks were fun early on. You have the Warlock tool-bag, curses for every situation. Self-healing, AoE.
But now threat is so bad that you HAVE to do nothing but spam Searing Pain, with a talent built entirely around spamming Searing Pain. Spend ANY GCD on anything but Searing Pain and you lose threat.
This has made Tank Lock unfun and boring. Worse with AQ having so many mobs reflect Fire, where you become simply useless.
100% agree and why I did go demo warlock spec after a couple weeks into AQ phase after being tired of threat issues when playing affliction. Back in classic, the Fankriss boss dropped a 70% threat reduction trinket for 20secs, but #1, it was remade into a pvp trinket in SoD, and #2, even if it was still available in SoD, having to give up a trinket slot for that is something I don’t think any warlock would actual want to do and see their dps go down when this is SoD where the blizz team should help address threat via runes or what they’ve done in previous phases by changing some baseline ability/talent.
It was either early phase 6 or sometime in phase 5 when I posted rune ideas that are needed, and mentioned warlocks should have soulshatter ability that I think was added in TBC or Wrath? It doesn’t even need to be a rune, just add it as a book to buy off the rune broker like they did with summoning stone/fel armor and add to game. However, that would just help warlocks while spriest/boomie threat is also crazy for any tank besides a shaman tank to keep up with.
Except Boomies get a 30% threat reduction built-in. So since both they and we are butting up to our threat ceiling constantly, they default to have 30% more potential damage than us. Shadow Priests get 25% from a 3 point talent right up their tree.
Warlocks get nothing unless they spec full Demo and use the FG.
Did you notice Blizzard snuck the Fankriss trinket back in to Naxx now, with some other effect on top of the threat reduction?
Mind blast is an ability that causes a high amount of threat and part of the rotation, while no boomie ability says that, so I see the threat reduction talent as a way to just minimize that as much as possible, but more threat reduction is welcomed. But I’m no gameplay expert when it comes to % numbers and such, just something not mentioned. Not sure what would be more helpful at this point, increasing/adding threat reduction to dps classes in general, or adding more threat ability to all tanks. But as you mentioned, one thing we run into on some fights are threat drops, so definitely a factor to take in.
Haven’t really dived into naxx gear yet for SoD verisons, interesting and will have to check it out.
Yeah but aren’t you in another thread complaining about hitting Kharon and Dark Rider enrage? Sounds like your not having a hard time holding threat off people that don’t do tons of dps. I lose threat against dps in Crypts a lot, even with Salv on them, and I’m doing 3 to 4k aoe dps (more on larger pulls), sometimes it just seems like things don’t care about tank threat sometimes. I’ve even had the Dark Rider immediately turn and kill a dps 2 seconds after pull while I’m top on the meters for damage at that point. Make it make sense.