So I’ve played every expansion when it was current except Cata, as a result I’ve never really devoted a ton of time to the cata story minus a few zones here and there, and some reading about it.
Why does every hate Thrall since Cata?
He was that expansion’s main neutral character at a time when Blizzard also ramped up the faction conflict (and also making the horde start it because of Garrosh, who Thrall put in the position in the first place), coupled with the game’s overall lackluster end game and weird story on top of giving him the final blow on Deathwing with the proto-azerite beam.
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Okay I get the neutral thing, but khadgar didn’t remotely get the same level of hate throughout WoD and Legion.
The kill steal I have heard about and I feel like a lot of bosses have been kill stolen in the end.
So it seems that it really comes down to Cata kind of just sucking?
Not trying to contradict it’s just one thing I haven’t understood
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There’s two ways to answer this - one, he was arguably the earliest case of the ‘main character of an expansion’ truly eclipsing the PC and absorbing the entire story into him, becoming ludicrously overpowered, having his mistakes whitewashed, and so on, and so on. Basically transplant all the modern criticism of Jaina into Cata-era Thrall and it maps pretty accurately, and he was also sort of the first time it happened, so. Much the same criticism can also be leveled against characters like Khadgar, but Thrall did it first.
The second, less broadly accurate but far more interesting answer is that Alliance players are typically kept very insulated from ever having to interact with emphatically Horde NPCs in a non-faction war context, and Thrall is basically the only exception, so it’s one they didn’t react very well to. And that’s the tea.
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Partly that. But I think Khadgar didn’t get that much hate because the alliance didn’t start any of the faction wars, and he was never in a position like high king in the first place to where you could even blame him if the alliance actually did strike first. He also had the benefit of the writers playing off of his artificial age to make dad jokes, which gave him some charm. People only started getting tired of Khadgar because his shtick was getting long in the tooth, rather than active frustration.
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There was a thread like this in General Discussion. I will repeat what I posted in that thread:
There is a moment where Thrall picks Garrosh as Warchief because he feels the Orcs may not follow a non-Orc.
He basically destroys the Horde because he underestimates his own people. Maybe because he was never like his people. He was raised by Humans, after all.
If he chose Cairne, Thrall feared Garrosh would engulf the Horde in a Civil War or fight in a Makgora with Cairne. Thrall managed to cause both to happen by choosing Garrosh.
That moment of spinelessness ruined Thrall for me.
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Hey thanks guys that all makes a lot more sense now. It was just something that I never understood even though I knew the story. I can definitely see why thrall would get the hate treatment, especially during current times
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The guy was promoted to a dragon aspect and all the aspects lost their powers.
Overall a lot of the initial mystique of WoW seemed to have been lost right then and there.
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I’m far over the Thrall hate. At this point I want nothing more than for him to come back and wash away the absolutely abysmal, regressive storytelling the writers foisted upon WoW’s Horde.
And I was fine with him leaving. I liked Cata-era Garrosh, I thought a pro-war warchief was fine so long as they were justified in their actions and the hero of our story. Not quite the way that went.
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On the subject of why Khadgar didn’t get as much backlash despite playing a similar role in Legion it breaks down to three things:
1.) Khadgar was introduced in WoW as a neutral NPC from the start. He was the de facto NPC in charge of Shattrath, the first neutral Hub back during Burning Crusade and he generally didn’t play favorites. Thrall on the other hand was Warchief for three expansions by the time they turned him into green Jesus and had built up some animosity among the louder part of the Alliance cheering section for his mistakes and the perception he was being shoved down their throats.
2.) Khadgar was not the character front and center getting powered up in Legion, it was the PC as leader of their Order Hall that were in the middle of everything powering up rare artifact weapons and facing down the worst the Legion has to offer. Khadgar was helping the PC take out the threats in Legion where as the PC was helping Thrall take out threats in Cataclysm. Many players did not like being reduced to window dressing for the ‘Thrall Saves the World’ show.
3.) Khadgar was not an Orc. While Orc fatigue wouldn’t really set in strongly until WoD, even during Cataclysm some fans were sick of Orcs being central to the plot the same way some players are tired of Humans being central to the plot. There are plenty of other races across the factions that have a stronger connection to Azeroth and the Dragon Aspects that were sidelined so Thrall could be built up. Khadgar dodges this bullet in Legion, despite being Human, because he is uniquely positioned as the apprentice of Medivh the Guardian Of Tiresfel and this his personal story is tied up with defending Azeroth from the Burning Legion.
Thrall is actually part of that particular problem, not the solution.
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Basically, he left the Horde to go be a hippy, and left New Orc Hitler in charge, which resulted in most of the bad **** that’s happened in the last, I dunno, 4 expansions?
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This can’t be emphasized enough. It really was the turning point from the PC being the main characters of their own story, to us tagging along with the superhero faction leaders.
Another point I think is important is how ridiculously overpowered they made Thrall. Not only was he the World Shaman, ie. the most powerful shaman on Azeroth, he also (briefly) had the powers of the Aspect of Earth. To top it off, he was the one who wielded the Dragon Soul to take down Deathwing. This is fanfic-tier levels of character worship.
Minor points for me, personally:
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I accepted a quest to help rejuvenate Nordrassil. My main being a druid, I was VERY excited to do this. Instead, I wound up helping Thrall pull himself back together, both literally and emotionally. I then was a guest at his wedding. I never healed Nordrassil.
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Go’el is obnoxiously close to Kal-El.
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Thrall was the Horde warchief from vanilla to Wrath. All they did to make him neutral was declare him neutral and make him a central point to the Alliance story in a faction war expansion. It worked like a screen door on a submarine.
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i know…the lore is stupid
Thrall abandoned the Horde in Legion and should only be met by scorn by all those that fought, bled and died for the Horde when the world was coming to a literal end while he cowered in forgettable field in a forgettable world.
But then it seems everyone forgot about Legion as quickly as they forgot about Draenor and the Iron Horde (who for some reason have allied in part with the modern Horde)
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Cataclysm marked Thrall’s transition into an essentially different character (Go’el) that was less compelling despite being given greater narrative focus than ever before.
Thrall was a character defined by charismatic leadership and devotion to the Horde, committed to revitalizing his culture and safeguarding a new future for his people. Meanwhile, when the name “Go’el” began appearing, he changed into a character largely noteworthy for self-doubt, questionable decisions, and unprecedented power.
Many felt that Thrall had turned his back on the Horde (a trend that would continue), simply leaving it in Garrosh’s hands. He could have left temporarily after dictating duties to Cairne or Vol’jin, but instead he elected a warmonger (one that said they were not ready for the responsibility) as Warchief in a time of great instability and crisis. Furthermore, as the consequences of his choices began to set in, we wouldn’t see Thrall admit direct responsibility for years to come.
On top of this was the introduction of Aggra, a character that many felt was without substance and only existed to hasten his change into Go’el and become his wife. (The questline for his wedding isn’t usually remembered fondly…)
Lastly was the sheer amount of character focus the story granted him compared to others, which before then was unusual. He was the face of the expansion and its “main character.” Alliance players also felt odd following someone that was the leader of their enemies just the expansion prior, in a similar manner to how Horde players disliked working under Alliance leaders in Legion.
So… TL;DR: Thrall experienced character development that was highly unpopular while being given more attention than ever before.
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Thrall got a lot of hate because of the Massiah-esk narrative he ended up with during Cata; then the following “absentee father” nonsense following that expansion. The prior issue is just him being a tad too bit in the lime light (though, honestly, after Legion … his presence was sort of tame) … the latter being an easy focal point for just how messy and awful the Horde Faction narrative has been.
On the other hand … there is a LOT of hyperbole when it comes to Rep Hate on the side of the Horde Playerbase. Baine conceptually hasn’t done that much to really warrant the “unsalvagable” monacre that he’s been shackled with. Just two things for Jaina … and just being bland (because Blizz ALWAYS prioritizes his use as a Token Good Horde Plot-Device over his needs as a character). Saurfang is also on that blacklist of unsalvagability for similar reasons. Thrall is no different…
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#BlessedPost.
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Dude the short answer is, the natural and important characters have to be alliance or human.
I don’t get Thrall hate myself, Malfurion had more screen time then thrall yet got no hate. He also had a raid to himself like thrall.
Mostly alliance players want neutral content to be alliance content. Either horde players don’t care or are not as loud about their opinion.
I think people liked him originally because he was sort of an “Everyman Orc”. He wasn’t really that special outside of his leadership abilities.
I think that’s why many people like Thrall coming back now because he’s been taken back to where he was even back to WC3.
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