Many classes got nerfed recently, ret will probably be in a good spot.
Let’s observe first week, shuffle proves many “new comps” could work.
Rets stomp my monks face in, but I think they are pretty balanced
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Ah no ret sucks now? Damn what a shame.
Ret was left far behind in the great dragonflight arms race.
Where other classes saw huge gains to utility, mobility, and defenses, ret was left in the dust.
Our mobility is worse than it was in SL by a lot. The difference between 6 second steed and 3 second steed is actually getting somewhere and barely moving. I am constantly just hitting w hoping to eventually get to the target. Even my slow is pointless…most classes can get out of the slow and it has a 30 second cd.
In the meantime I’m being absolutely demolished from range. I cant stop the incoming damage, I can’t mitigate it, I cant even heal it because word of glory is super weak, and I cant even generate enough HP anyway because I can’t reach my target.
We used to be good at removing slows or not sitting in full CC but our freedom has become inferior to the toolkit of everyone else and we have no way to slow or stop cc.
Once our 3.5 min bubble is done, its over. Sadly, with all of our defenses revolving around this one major CD, priests and warriors are always ready for it and dispel it before you gain any benefit from it.
Damage wise, were fine. Not overly strong but nothing to scoff at. Offensive utility wise, we have nothing. HoJ used to be considered strong and in the current meta its just not. We have to spend a pvp talent point for it to still be a weaker version of stormbolt. Our pvp talents offer nothing interesting or impactful. Our talent trees offer nothing more than weird ways to deal damage. Compare that to the class tree for the mage, where an arcane mage gains an extra invis, dragons breath, blastwave, CoC root, mass slows and polymorphs, ice nova, etc. We just gained our own abilities we just always had.
Rets were screaming all of this on the beta for months, since the day the tree was revealed and the devs did nothing about it. They did not even bother responding to us.
Hm. What did they mean by this.
Ret is now a Kyrian Ret with less mobility that lost ringing clarity and vial healing.
We lost both of those for JV and exorcism the latter doesn’t do much damage in PvP, and JV is actually a damage loss outside of our stun but it does heal. Sadly much of the change revolved around conc and it isn’t very useful in PvP.
Radiant decree is a strong ability but we lose wake of ashes and the proc resets, if didn’t take 3 holy power it would be very good.
The sac damage talent is a great idea but it’s not terribly great in the real game because we are the kill target so often.
Burn bubble and we fall over. I feel like we are like MM hunters we hit hard but we are glass cannons. In the BGs I have a better time on my Hunter but in the arena I think the experience will be similar less room to run.
We hit hard during wings for sure burst damage is high but not the highest in the game a number of more mobile tankier DPS classes match or beat it. Our sustained is lower than say fury/arms/monk/DK and rogue (not sub rogues) while we are on target, and we are on target less. Our sustain will be 70% of most other melee at best. We do have some of the lowest sustained single target in the game.
I feel like we have a go, then have to run for our life until CDs are up, running is hard from a wheelchair btw. We are like a fire mage in SL but less tanky and less mobile. If I’m not the kill target I think arena will be super fun, but I have a feeling I will be when playing my ret.
The little bit of solo shuffle I’ve done on other classes the general game plan typed into chat pregame is usually “Ret” “focus Ret”. We have strong support for a team with sanc, sac, and BoP but you defeat all of that by attacking/CCing the Ret, it’s probably the simplest utility to outplay.
We do have big damage in wings… maybe it goes well in the end.
vankwoker thinks it will be very good, dont rets get a 50% buff to stunned targets, thats bigger than wings every 24s
Man, stop bullying the disabled kid.
It’s not his fault he can’t read.
So the usual
I love rets. Rets are fine.
I enjoy rets who give me hoj out of the arena gates on first global
Yes it does it makes it hit for 30K against a stunned target before modifiers at 411 so 25k against a 411 player before any talent DR ect.
You get the big ones by using wings, Final Reckoning and trinket with a judgement up. That gets it to 120K crit on the dummy and 103k crit vs a player. With all CDs its 65k crit outside of a stun roughly. We do stupid burst in a stun and good burst without.
But getting our 1 minute stun down to 24 seconds is very optimistic.
30 seconds or so, perhaps a bit less with 100% uptime, on the dummy it’s normally 18-19 globals. Real world think 40 seconds.
You can generally get two off in a stun. After the stun GCD you have 4.5 seconds = 3 globals JV-wake-JV with the 10% DR you would need 2 DP procs in a row to get more than 2. That’s about a 1 in 50 chance or so.
Our out of wings sustained sux. My affl lock does as much sustain as my no Coolies Ret with Cor and agony up on two targets without haunt or using drain soul ect just put those dots up. I’ve testing on the dummy many times. That assumes 100% uptime for my Ret.
We have plenty of damage we just fall over after bubble.
My MM does 300K in 3.4 seconds. Pre double tap then hit chakram and rapid fire. but I think I’ll get focused in arena on that toon as well.
kidney shot?
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Kidney is 20 seconds yes.
Again we need our big CDs to go with it. We would normally hold our stun for them…
Without wings and final reckoning it hits a player for 25K in a stun baseline, more of course with judgement. It does 8% of your health with judgement up, less for classes with more stam like warriors ~7%, warlocks it’s closer to 5-6% with soul link closer to 5%.
Every minute we can get big damage in a stun with final reck and the one minute trinket without wings 40k or about 80k crit. It hits hard with coolies. So having a 20 second kidney doesn’t make it scary its the CDs you burn with it. I am stacking haste so my crit outside of wings is 14%. We do get wing procs though, you also get 3% seraphim procs as well.
If you run saraphim you can add 8% for a short time at the cost of sanctified wrath.
Look, we hit hard with CDs. I don’t think any Rets are worried about damage, it’s the whole focus ret down strat that is so effective. Our strong (yes its strong) team utility does no good if you focus the Ret.
BoP, LoH, sac, and sanc (not entirely) all go out the window in part because of forbearance.
The message to the Devs has been fairly clear here. We are willing to give up some damage for mobility and defensives outside of Bubble. Hell at this point you can have bubble if I can have better tools on shorter CDs. If bubble is removed we are done, hell with the nurfs to healing in SL I generally can’t even top myself from 40% even if it holds the entire time without wings. I can normally get 4 heals off of around 25-35k.
Biggest issue with Ret atm is their self healing costs them damage when other melee self heal for free, and isn’t better than other melee’s self healing to justify it.
They have niche weaknesses that apply to certain comps, but overall they’re okay for stuff like 3’s, or running more meta comps. They just aren’t S1 Divine Toll killing everyone on the map through walls strong atm.
If they changed WoG to cost mana instead of Holy Power it would help them some, IMO.
You are correct. Our healing is poo, spamming word of glory is at least a 30% damage cut my fury heals 3X losing almost no damage. My Rogue out heals my Ret maybe not after the nurfs but recup didn’t get touched and they still have vial that heals for almost as much as 3 WoGs.
My Fury warrior in a BG does a LOT LOT more healing. IV (30%) does about half of what my LoH (75% in PvP) does and it’s every 25 seconds I can get 16 IVs for every LoH.
Plus 2 rolling HoTs not to mention Eregen can heal 80Kish every 2 seconds fury can heal for 45K+ HPS in that window during a 20% DR. With the slight nurf my fury will still heal 2-3X more than my Ret even using nothing but JV. My Fury will be doing almost 100% DPS and healing as much as my ret even if all I did was heal, the HoTs equal a word of glory every 6-7 seconds.
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Yeah, I play with a Ret. When I see the post game and see he had to heal a good bit I realize that cost him a ton of damage potential. Then I see something like a DH heal for even more, realize it cost him nothing, and wonder why Blizzard only employs people with single branch family trees.
No tox but who?
Ret/sub will be good it never stopped being good it’s just not played
Justicar’s Vengance does 50% more dmg to stunned targets
Not really no
I love my Ret First toon 18 yrs ago was a Ret (yeah I’m old :P),
I don’t want to be a doomsayer. Have damage the changes though to much about conc and a bloated 13-15 button DPS rotation with most of the buttons doing very little damage, and without CDs you are the lowest DPS in the game.
vanguards.
Ah okay.
Ya I mean ret/sub will be good
But as stated it’s p much not ever played on NA and I would be genuinely surprised to see it played more than usual (almost never)