Thoughts on grimdark RP?

Wyrmrest Accord
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First time poster, long time lurker!

Just wanted to hear other people’s thoughts about grimdark rp/themes.

Grimdark’s gotta be my favourite flavour personally; themes of struggle, morality, horror, bleakness, conflict, war, psychological horror/strife, etc. Can’t get enough! Light / slice-of-life / noblebright RP has never been my cup of tea (no hate to those who prefer it, it’s just not for me!).

However, I’ve noticed that a lot of RP - particularly on MG, where it’s more egregious IMO (I’m a cross-realm roleplayer) - seems to tend towards… well, the lighter-on stuff. WRA is a little better for it, from what I’ve seen, but more SOL/friendly and casual RP seems to be extremely prevalent.

Grimdark done poorly can definitely become grimderp, which is immensely cringe. But my experiences have found that even “good” grimdark tends to be shied away from.

(Sidebar, ofc time/place and audience are critical for correctly playing these scenarios; busting out some heavy stuff in the middle of a market event is not appropriate, for example. I’m not talking about those who lack situational awareness here - that would understandably be looked on unfavourably.)

Please share your thoughts on grimdark plots/rps! And… if any who also enjoy it know some good guilds/places to find it on WRA/MG… recommendations? :pray:

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I am all for the dark rp. The grimmer the darker the better. But it’s getting harder and harder to find. I also really like your distinction between grimdark and grimderp. Though, if I am honest, dark humor is one of my favorite humors, so abit of grimderping can be fun. Anyway. I am working on getting my own guild up and running here on WRA with a focus on undeath and necromancy. If that is something you might be interested in let me know.

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I have Thoughts™ about this topic, but I want to preface these thoughts first with the fact that I LOVE dark rp. I wouldn’t rp in Duskwood if I didn’t! Themes of death, survival, horror of both the physical and psychological flavors are my bread and butter. But there’s one very important thing about the Warcraft series.

There is no grimdark here. Okay, technically if you went to one of the AU worlds we met in Dragonflight where the void won, or the Scourge won, or the Legion won. Those realities are absolutely grimdark. But the main story, the main world? Warcraft has always had a silly streak to it. From clicking on your minions in the RTS and having them scold you, to calling you a “wascally wabbit” if you enable cheats. Lightheartedness is in Warcraft’s DNA, and taking that away can take out some of the immersion of roleplaying in this universe. The game has been evolving away from the faction war as well, into faction rivalry. Warcraft has always had fun and hope, true grimdark narratives like 40k, do not.

Which brings me to a second point, I don’t think what you actually want is Grimdark. I remember a plotline that Duskwood went through very vividly. My character had been infected by a void/decay creature that made him its slave and a local villain. He was in this villain mode for two months, and while it was extremely memorable and exciting, I remember at the end of it being utterly exhausted. My character was miserable and ready to throw himself into the maw of the beast that controlled him. And I was exhausted and miserable having to log in to play that role for everyone else by the end of those two months. Having to hold that mental space of absolute despair. The fun had been drained and I was ready for the plot to move into its second phase of rescuing those in the monster’s clutches. The hope brought the fun back.

I’m not sure how to tie my thoughts into a nice bow here, but remember to grimdark responsibly, take care of your mental health, set boundaries with your rp partners, and enjoy roleplay in the style that makes you most fulfilled.

(Also come to Duskwood)

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Grimdark can be exhausting if you put a lot into it. I played a Sith in SWTOR for awhile and a lot of it was genuinely not fun for me. That being said, a couple of my guildies have been tackling darker scenarios involving grief and PTSD. It gave some good character growth, but I’m also glad that it’s not the only RP we’re doing.

I think the most important thing in grimdark is to have clear set boundaries on what you will and won’t accept in a scene, and that there’s communication. FTB should also be acceptable if something gets too intense.

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I think this is where the distinction between grimdark and grimderp comes in as well - dark for the sake of dark is silly, and not grimdark. Grimdark is best offset by reasons why those things are bad, and consequences for those dark actions, balanced with some moments of things like the indomitable human spirit, for example. I agree that Warcraft is definitely ‘lighter’ - or at least, not overt - in terms of theming (to keep it appropriate for its ESRB rating). But, there are absolutely some grimdark elements in the background. Deathwing and Alexstrasza, Stratholme, Teldrassil burning, these are just a few off the top of my head.

I fear that I’m a little different in that regard… most of my characters are either outright villains, morally black, or morally grey. You definitely got me there - am a 40k/WH:F fan :sweat_smile: so this is actually something I’d enjoy. In my own personal case I’d be unlikely to be drained by it - have been doing that sorta RP for decades. But - I do agree that others who might not be as into the genre or plays villains regularly might find struggle in that,

Absolutely agreed!! Good advice for any kinda rp. And thank you - I will absolutely check Duskwood out.

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Oh-kay, here we go.

As somebody who also enjoys grim, dark and depressing settings (as much because the struggle against the dark is cathritic because you can make actual progress … ), a few things to consider.

  1. Out of Sight, Out of Mind

Not everybody is going to want to see this, or be involved in this, so make sure if you’re tackling Grimdark, do it either in older zones, phased instances such as Raids, Pandaria Scenarios and similar. Nobody wants to walk down an alleyway and get Berserk by way of WoW in the middle of the Cathedral Square.

You’ve brought this up in your original post, but it is a real issue as people have been banned for this. Stick to instanced areas if you’re going more into the dark side of the Grimdark, for your own safety as much as other people’s comfort.

  1. Safety Words and Boundaries

If you’ve got a good, long-term group planned, put Safety Words in place. You never know, you will never know, all the things your Roleplay Friends and Partners will have gone through and they may never be comfortable telling you or anyone else about it either.

Just get everybody to put down their hard “I don’t want to deal with this, ever!” top five things, be it spiders, forced incarceration, mutilation etc etc, and make that iron-clad with everybody that is going to be involved.

And Safety Words is a thing that is really useful. It could be “Lemon Butter Biscuits” or something else that’s unlikely to come up in random conversation, but it is everybody’s cue to stop, drop and huddle and figure out what the problem is. Sometimes, we get a little too excited, we get a little too fixated on what we’re doing, and we miss social cues. And this is an Online Game where the majority of your cues are coming from mere text.

No facial expressions or posture, no tone or inflection in the words, you’re going off generic, basic text. You’re gonna miss clues and hints.

Use the Safety Word Method.

There’s more, but I’m tired.

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Darkwolf Clan is built around the concepts of RPing each and every one of our characters as fully capable of dispare. We are fond of the nitty gritty dark styles of RP and view it as a form of progressing our own characters and stories.

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I’m fine with grimdark RP, but it can spiral quickly into either Grimderp as has been addressed, or go from grimdark to GrimDark (A tragedy spiral where absolutely nothing good can ever happen).

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I feel the number one factor in any RP is how well you communicate with your partner(s) as far as your desires and expectations. “Grimdark” can have a difficult time with this because, to some people, the term can be interchangably used with “mature,” to some people it refers to a specifically over-the-top aesthetic popularized by gore and misery, to some others it means anything more scandalous than holding hands and staring meaningfully at each other for long periods of time.

Aesthetically, I’m not opposed to it. WoW is a game where dark themes like slavery, bigotry, genocide and turning dead souls into weapons for bald shirtless scenesters exist. And frankly, some of that is fun–no one is playing this game to pretend to be an accountant who goes to church every Sunday.

There’s no shame in just deciding which parts you like and which parts you don’t, either. No one’s getting graded on this. You don’t have to go all or nothing.

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Maybe it’s just me but… when the Kor’kron got thumped by the villain bat, there were lots of people who abused that plot element and virtually bullied people into Garrosh loyalty or get called a bad RPer.

I’m a huge fan of grimdark and it can be done but players need to build a little agreement about what intensity of detail and taboo topics are a line in the sand.

What I really enjoy is telling people that when Carmen goes out to check on the condition of marine habitats, she weighs herself down with chains, the same ones that her caravan kodo died wearing.

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I’ve never cared for the compartmentalizing of RP into neat little sub-categories that can never, ever intersect. I get why people do it, and I obviously I understand preferences and all that, but I, personally, just find it tedious. I enjoy “grimdark” and “noblebright” and HIGH ADVENTURE and casual, slice-of-life roleplay all in equal measure, and can’t imagine restricting myself to playing pretend in only one way.

That said, most of the roleplay I engage in in public tends towards the lighter side (as in both casual and “opposite of dark”), but that’s because getting into more intense stuff with people you don’t know can go sideways quickly. This is a fairly common approach, and might be why your impression of MG is that it tends towards lighter, more “noblebright” RP.

Uhm, actually, I’m putting together a tier list of everyone’s RP characters, which you can find in my TRP under the list of all the RP characters I’ve canonically killed.

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I’ve never really been one to categorize rp in such a way. Generally, if I ever do categorize rp, it’s usually by character themes, typically going by things like class, race or vocation, but I digress.

I’ve never been a huge fan of Grimdark as a genre of fiction, and I imagine the same might be said of it as a rp genre, though I suppose in both cases it largely depends on the case; it is very likely that my limited experience with the genre has mostly been bad examples. Mind you, I do enjoy dark plots, and I’m often willing, if not eager in some cases, to take part in such in rp. I suppose one could say that, from my admittedly limited experience, I tend to find Grimdark to be too dark for my personal tastes. Frankly, I don’t even really think Grimdark quite fits the setting in general. The setting can get pretty dark, sure, but I don’t think it’s ever quite crossed that line. Regardless, like many others, I doubt I’d trust too many folks to handle that sort of thing well, outside of guilds or verified individuals.

In summary, I likely wouldn’t do it personally, but I also wouldn’t want it gone as I quite enjoy it when there’s a lot of variety in the community.

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I have been on MG for a while, and yeah, this definitely tracks. You’re absolutely right in that grimdark themes need to be “right place, right time”, it’s not appropriate to expose people in the middle of Stormwind to an intense scene, for example. Consent and situational awareness are important!

As an aside - not directed to the quoted commenter - I think I personally really struggle with the slice-of-life, casual “gee the weather today is nice” “have you heard about my latest relationship drama” “want a cookie?” kinda roleplay that’s really prevalent in hubs like Stormwind. I find absolutely no fulfilment or interest in those interactions/scenarios (again, no hate to those who enjoy them, write what makes you happy!), and it’s unfortunately making me want to avoid hubs.

Finding the right partners who enjoy the same genres/content as you can be such a needle-in-the-haystack search! :sweat_smile: Luckily I have a couple of great LT partners that are a joy to write with and we like the same stuff.

It sucks to hear some people have had bad experiences with grimdark RP, but such is the nature of quite an intense genre. Grimdark responsibly, everyone!

Thanks to those who have shared their thoughts so far!

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This.

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I dunno, though. A cookie sounds pretty nice.

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I can definitely relate to this. I started RPing on the Alliance and found that walk-up RP in Stormwind just wasn’t my cup of tea. Eventually I found my way over to the Horde by way of the Forsaken, and I was really happy with it because it seemed like there was just less of that “Stormwind social style” of which I’d become so sick.

I suppose I do enjoy “grimdark” RP, although I don’t enjoy calling it that. I’m not sure why; I think it’s just because whenever I see it pop up, it usually seems to invite the reader to imagine the most pervasively depressing, miserable, horrific things known to man, completely devoid of any variety outside of the continual onslaught of death, torture, madness, and whatever other terrible things you can imagine. The level of excess does eventually reach a point where I find myself rolling my eyes because I’m just thinking, This _____ (book/story/player/etc.) is trying much too hard to be edgy and dark.

I enjoy roleplay and stories with variety, and in my experience, one can make the same mistake with “grimdark” that one can make with “slice of life”: too much. If it’s always grim and dark, or always bright and happy, I’m going to get bored.

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Can’t argue with that.

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A guild I was in on emerald dream back in the day was heavily influenced by dark and troubling scenarios to some folks. I think everything is about making sure people know that it’s just roleplay and that if they’re not comfortable that they don’t have to be apart of it all. Communication is key, as per many situations in life. I can only add that without bad I dont think there can be good so there needs to be grimdark groups out and about. It’s a vibe that is sorely not present in the undead RP community lately, that’s just my opinion though. Here’s to hoping for more dark RP guilds. Cheers.

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I have a style I tend to call “dark comedic,” as a death knight/demon hunter RP’er. I get a little silly, but my characters’ themes are very dark. My goblin death knight has a massive crush on Arthas Menethil and it’s meant to be equally messed up and kinda funny. My demon hunter is always cracking jokes and trying to inject some humor into situations.

I like striking a balance between story-driven dark RP and casual, slice-of-life stuff. I don’t like storyline RP with too many people involved, as it makes my characters feel inconsequential to the story. So most of my public RP is slice-of-life and casual because I just don’t find heavily plotted stuff to be all that fun with strangers.

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May I invite you to check out my neck of the woods… :grin:

I still strive to keep that old school Forsaken vibe (un)alive in my RP.

Don’t ever forget the first time you stepped out of the Deathknell graves. Always remember the old Brill tavern music, or gathering Doom Weed for Junior Apothecary Holland, or bringing Scarlet hearts to Master Apothecary Faranell.

Anyway, it’s out there still. You just have to know where to look!

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