I was just thinking that the chance to proc with mastery in this is kinda pointless with the icd.
I was also wondering how this performs these days if anyone wants to talk about their experience of it in tww.
It is purely so that the talent isn’t worthless in ST situations.
The mastery gives you an additional chance, although small, to proc it since it applies to both judgement and HoW.
You’re right that it is pointless in AoE since we already more than enough instances of damage that can proc it with multiple Wake hits and DS.
But one of the underlying goal was to make SL better in ST than it was.
Before, the only thing that could proc it the ST rotation were Wake and the first instance of damage of consecration.
I never saw Expurg proc it when I was testing it back in DF.
So didn’t proc on opener? Better luck in 12sec/24sec/30sec.
When we had the problem of being either good in AoE or Good in ST, that was one of the culprits.
So now within 30 sec you get 12-14(?) instances where you COULD proc it instead of 4.
All DT hits, judgement, HoW, etc…
Didn’t feel like counting them but it’s way more steady.
My personal fix would have been to make expurg proc it on the DoT.
Essentially being meaningless again in AoE but significantly better in ST
And side note for Divine Arbiter, to make it better in AoE, I would have made it so the cleave Blessed champion gives to CS and judgement applies stacks and remove the Blessed Hammer interaction (which they did).
Now with the mastery it kind of does that, only it’s not 100% sure and it’s only on judgement that you can get those mulitple stacks.
Would you say it procs enough to make it worth taking in ST for ts users vs taking zealot to increase more boj procs?
No, if you’re going in with the idea of maximizing your ST, you’ll never pick that.
I don’t think you can even with the points available, unless you don’t even take Blade of Light. Which I get, TS intrinsically scales with mastery but in itself it doesn’t make the SL package stronger than the DA package for ST.
The point is more so to keep it worthwhile talent in M+ whilst not making it feel bad on M+ bosses.
The points you wouldn’t put in Zealot can only really go to EL, VM, Rush of Light, Judgement of Justice.
None of the other option helps your ST damage.
So essentially if I don’t want the spec to go overboard with AoE and a more balanced build, I can skip SL for something else.
You’d take blade of light anyways i think. Since it effects more impactful skills then what burning crusade does. (Which is a shame, the only big skills it effects is ds and dh, consecration does too little to care about putting more damage on, and dh is only effective in some builds unless templar, and mostly AoE really. Other then boasting maybe herald dots and ts)
There is ire too, but only if both el and ep is choosen.
But anyways, what do you think of it’s potential power would be if they reduce the icd down?
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I don’t think it would change much in ST, it would be marginally stronger but nowhere near enough to go past DA.
In AoE, it would be very strong.
The chance to proc is applied to all mobs hit by your wake and your initial hit of consecration so on 5 mobs that’s 10 instances of damages.
DS is another 5 and there’s judgment likely addin 2-3.
Just in the opening sequence you already have near 20 instances of radiant damages, so at 5% you’re likely to trigger it immediately.
Then from there it could cascade, SL trigger a consecration, technically it means it could trigger itself.
Between our generation, DP and EP, we spam DS a lot, it would trigger way more than 3 times a minute.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it triggered 3-4 times per 15sec actually.
Now, would that be too strong? hard to tell
Preliminary data shows ret isn’t doing great in the Raid, it’s lower tier on every single fight despite the huge number of parses and the contribution of instrument of retribution early on.
M+ is more convoluted but it doesn’t seem that great there either.
It would seem the scaling issue is still there despite the mastery change and additional scaling on some talents.
SL is part of that, the ICD mean it doesn’t scale with haste…
DA doesn’t crit…
Divine Hammer/EH is an interesting interaction but they removed the haste scaling from Divine hammer (it hits every 2sec regardless now) to allow it to happen.
Sure haste is still valuable as a mean to keep it going indefinitely but once a cap has been reached there’s no point in having more, to this end at least.
The thing is, they nerfed mastery in S1 because it had a higher value than strength so it’s not like there’s a lot of wiggle room there.
The solution should be to buff the spenders since they are the only thing that scales with everything.
I could go for buffing spenders as some of our builders is close to our spenders in damage, but doesn’t our builders also scale with all our stats?
They do, you’re right.
I should have nuanced/explain the comment because it is loaded with the current context.
Builder are contributing for a relatively high part of our damage relative to how they historically performed.
Furthermore, the spenders are the end-result of what we do, we use builders because we want to cast spenders.
I didn’t consider them because buffing them would ultimately make HP useless if the end result becomes that builder just hit consistently harder than spenders.
The premise is that HP should retain it’s mechanical purpose.
As such, the spenders are the only thing you can realistically buff.
Now just buffing their damage doesn’t really solve the problem.
It puts a band-aid on it and comes another expansion, the buff will be reverted so that it start back lower and the dance will start again.
The spenders probably need a component that makes them more potent naturally.
Sun sear on herald is an example of that without being relevant tuning wise at the moment.
Maybe FV could have a chance equal to your crit/haste/mastery/vers to echo for X% of its damage (that was a talent/conduit previously)
Maybe DS should have a Sun Sear effect built in.
I will admit, I thought our scaling issue was somewhat solved with the changes to mastery and talents but it really doesn’t look like it is (at this point in time).
I’d argue on this one, FV already has an component that adds to it, a chance to proc HoW. So maybe have the chance to proc it baised on X stat would be the scalable solution? It having an echo might come to close to what templar slash already does, no?
They could rebuild tempest into a chance to proc by x stat I think. It’s a cool effect I think everyone should enjoy.
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Rotationally, it would be better for ST since we sometime do have holes when using CSAA.
But even though it’s a proc on the spender, that’s still increasing builder damage, technically.
And ultimately, if you don’t have GCD’s to spend on it (for some reason), then it doesn’t do anything and just runs out.
So I feel we kind of go back to square 1 and , beside , people have commented on the forums finding HoW to be to “accessible” for an execute.
I don’t know that it would help all that much if you use TS but I haven’t played with it much so I can’t comment.
They could but Tempest, as it is now, is a 100% sure damage increase, if it’s reworked into a proc it would need to be one hell of a proc to make for 20% damage increase it is now, on top of scaling.
But there are options, that’s for sure.