No. The reason LK was the peak is that it was the only time the game was accessible for virtually anyone and everyone. It was easy to 10 man raid and actually have that be a meaningful experience. The second they killed 10 man raiding is when the game truly faltered. Before that, it was only slightly mediocre at the worst.
I remember how much hate people got for “ruining” an attempt.
Or stealing IDs and running the counter out.
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Peak subs doesn’t mean it was the best. It’s not the best. It’s up there, but not the peak in terms of game play imo.
Me with crusader seals after getting crusader title since MoP:
https://tenor.com/view/simpsons-leaving-entering-enter-enter-and-leave-gif-19751902
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Um, Classic and TBC were the expansions to win WotLK it’s 12 million count… this statement is in no way really factual.
they cried that 25man get more loot non-spot.
“just because i dont like dragging 15 mouthbreathers, i shouldn’t be penalized” they cried.
The game started its downhill tumble at the end of WotLK. Vanilla, TBC, and WotLK were all hugely popular. The game grew during Vanilla, grew during TBC, and grew up until the end of WotLK. I will argue the best expansion was TBC since it still helped to springboard WoW to where it was in WotLK.
All that said I do not think the game design from WotLK, TBC, or even Vanilla would work in todays world. I personally would like them but that is nostalgia talking and players that did not play the game back then would likely find the game a bit archaic. Games have to evolve over time to stay successful (look at FFXIV). While Blizzard has tried to evolve the game, they did not get the results they were looking for. I commend them for trying but I worry they (Blizzard) are about out of lives and one or two more misses could be the deathblow.
Yea they should start building a world and iterate on it for a decade or so with rts games and then release a game that is the end of the story started in that rc game that already had millions of fans and do it at a time when the com9is pretty weak.
That would be a great idea.
Some with the buzz of a real chance at WoLKC…are already planning easy dungeon comps.
4 Dk’s 1 healer.
Still…I look forward to it. Didn’t catch first run. and the state of retail atm has changed outlook I had in tbcc tries in the past. I at least am grinding many kills to get somewhere.
300 dead yellow tagged animals is xp and leather lol.
Not really sure what 300 things die for in retail anymore. No real money, no xp, and well…since not bleeding edge pve I could not give 2 craps about rep. I lean to pvp…7/7 conqueror hits me I die. 2 of them? I die much faster lol.
I think in wrath, they did mostly everything correct. Although the dungeon finder was one of the bad things personally. It would not have been to bad in my op, if it wasn’t for the control players now had in dungeons. Now it is just like, kick this person. Why? Oh no heirlooms. People often get kicked for the most random reasons now. And waiting 2 mins on a dps, beats taking 10 minutes to help a dps get better. Among other things.
It felt like less of a world also. You could just stand around in orgrimmar and Thunderbluff all day queing up for pvp or dungeons if you wanted to. Wow crendor how to win at pugs summs up my feelings about alot of the people you met in the dungeon finder as well. It had some good perks, but most of them were bad.
I also wasn’t a fan of the xpon/off separation thingy. I mean, i went from 5 minute ques max, to like 30 min ques max if i was on a leveling toon and the ques weren’t separated.
Overall, those are really the only major changes i can think of that really hurt wrath. Although most raids became outdated after a while with gear inflation, i can tell you that you did Ulduar because it was a cool raid. Even though ICC was way better gear wise. And it was easier than ever before for casuals to get into raiding. You got emblems of frost in heroic 5 mans per day, which was a slow steady way to get decent gear.
We had pretty much everything this expansion. The skill cap and ceiling was still rediculously high, and still attracted alot of hardcore players. It still felt like an RPG, where leveling mattered. Hunters in particular i remember were pretty tough to play at the skill cap, and you could do insane things as a hunter if you were good enough. Wrath still had that adversity at lower lvls. Needed to help those shamans do their sunken temple class quests every once in a while.
One thing i am hoping with wrath classic is that blizzard overtunes everything at max level. Because it won’t last long otherwise. Naxxramas was pretty easy by launch day, so anything to make the actual end game harder and more challenging would be good.
I think if i could describe retail in one word, it would be changes. Just way to much has changed from the day that wrath of the lich king. Some are bad. Some have been good. But wrath was before any major changes happened. And as time goes forward, when you feel you are playing a game that has been changed, altered, and deleted in a way that makes it not fun to play, then you just do not want to play anymore. On top of all that, age is also a part of it, and wow is old now. But wrath was before anything major changed about it. Wow is legit a different game now, and i have felt that way since cataclysm.
But there is still fun to be had in retail in my op. I just have to work harder to make it fun. Wrath just had mostly everything correct. Nothing crazy had changed. And change is pretty difficult to get used to.
Wrath in my op will always be the best overall version of the game. It just had everything, including a ton of stuff retail no longer has.
Arthas simp… MoP was peak, you’re a peabrain if you think otherwise.
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It’s also the first expansion to hemorrhage players going from a peak of 12 mill down too less than 9 at the end. Numbers don’t lie but you need to use them correctly
MoP was the best blend of old and modern WoW. I easily put it on Wrath’s level and they should have kept most of it.
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I honestly loved the shiz out of pandaria. But i still could not get over the deletion of the old 1-60 overworld in cataclysm. I did not like Cross realm zones either. The scarlet monastery revamp was cool, but like my gripes with cataclysm revamp, having to give up the old scarlet monastery, was another bad thing in my OP.
Blizzard also took poison vials out, and turned any existing poison vials into trash items. I also did not like not being able to equip a bow and a spear on my hunter anymore.
But overall, it had alot of strong points to. The new race and class was fun. The new content and continent were fun. The raids and the 5 man dungeons were fun. I liked the new pvp battlegrounds they added. I also think that cross realm mounts/pets and aoe looting were good ideas, and are going to be flaws in wrath classic.
Like i said in a earlier post, retail is about changes. And you even roll with them, or you list them as cons like i do. I think blizzard needs to keep adding stuff to the game. Stuff that doesn’t really conflict with anything, or really how people play the game. Chromie time in my op was one of shadowlands best features. The levels, skills, talents etc. They were getting inflated. So now blizz can balance the game around 60 levels instead of 400.
Mop also had the last of the rng elements in the form of leveling up manually. Leveling up was really the only RPG left in the game anymore. In warlords of draenor, you could pay blizz to level up. All of my points are subjective though, as all of the things i mentioned as positives, alot of folks will mention as positives. But i have not been a fan of alot of the changes that have been made to retail since the cataclysm expansion. But there are alot of good things made to retail as well. I just honestly think i had more fun in wrath. Before all the changes.
Most of the additions to retail, are great. New raids. A new class. New islands. New 5 mans. Those are all fine and good. But when blizzard changes things, such as removing tier sets. Which is like one of the main reasons to raid other than to be competitive. Removing pvp vendors. Removing an old overworld. In my op, this does nothing but drive the game down.
The reason wrath of the lich king subs dropped at the end, was because it was the end. There is always a huge drop off of subscribers at the end of each expansion, with the possible exception of burning crusade in vanilla when burning crusade, because vanilla wow was still brand new. This was the first expansion to the game. And maybe even the numbers stayed relatively steady throughout burning crusade as well until wrath launched.
When cataclysm launched, the numbers came back up for a bit, and just gradually started going down as the expansion progressed towards the middle and end. Pandaria unfortunately had all the panda hate. Or how it was a joke expansion or whatever. I honestly liked this expansion alot, but i can tell you that i think blizzard needs to rethink how they do things in retail if they want people to come back. Wow is old now, so i feel like losing subs at the end is invetiable. But for example, i would flip if blizz announced classic wow 1-60 content was coming to the next expansion for chromie time. This is one of the main reasons to play wrath, as it was the intermediate lvl of casual for me as well.
Blizzard also needs to learn what they can change. And what was better that they left alone. In wrath, they left enough of it alone which is why i think it was so popular. Also, wrath had oculus and trials of the champions. They were ok, but the raid wasn’t the best for trial of the champions. The 5 man was ok, and oculus was fine once you knew what you were doing. But there weren’t nearly as many things bringing wrath down as there have been in recent expansions in my op. But i did like pandaria.
Anyone who thinks WoW reached 12m subs solely because it was just somehow made so much better back then is an idiot, tbh.
The real reason Wrath was best was because it had Moodle.
WotLK had its issues but many of them can be forgiven for the fact that it had the most refined version of original-formula class design. Cata was where they started messing with that deeply and set the game on the path that culminated in WoD class design (anemic spellbooks and pigeonholed specs).
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Ummm, no.
Cata is where the decline started, WOTLK held its gains all the way through, people got a small taste of Cata and spat it back out again lol
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Wrath-Cata-MoP. The unrepeated pinnacle of WoW in terms of gameplay and communities.
Meh, wrath had its issues, Just at the right place at the right time… And really no other MMO’s on the market to compete at the time of wrath