This is a feedback of a PvE Destro player

Classes Warlock
1

Greetings, bros!

You are reading this because a Destro PvE player from another region feels desperately frustrated playing his favorite class (or let’s say spec) in one of his favorite MMORPG games ever after he read the release notes of the incoming 9.0.5.
And yes, this poor man subscribed to US server and leveled up to 10 to post a thread to let the voice at least have a chance to be heard by Blizzard.

Please allow me to introduce myself a little bit.
I have always been a Warlock since the old '60s like many of you guys.
Over ten years, even though I missed several expansions due to life changes, I have been lucky to participate in raiding in every expansion that I played (currently I’m at M7/10, fighting with Sludgefist).
I too, after playing these years, realized that the Destro warlock is my style.
I love the conception of Destruction, I enjoyed casting powerful spells after pre considering every move in the deadly mechanisms of every boss fight.
Therefore, I consider my DPS as a reward of my execution, my strategy, and a measure of how I handled those challenges, and BTW the latter is actually why I play raid in WOW - to seek for challenges.

Things changed from 7.0 after huge changes happened to Warlocks since the resource system has been redesigned.
What a worse is that the mastery of Destro became random, which was just like the old-time Fire mage (I guess we all know where it comes from).
And I remembered it has been decorated to have it half random and half fixed with some adjustments in the talents tree - good talents got swapped so that overall DPS got a buff back then.
However, we all know that this whole shard system and random type mastery is the root cause of the bad performance of Destro warlock.

What a surprise is that even two expansions have passed, this stupid design is still there, running like many old stupid codes in other software. The only difference is the latter works perfectly but somehow looks ugly or may be hard to get updated, but the design of Destro works badly that the customer got pissed but the company who takes the money doesn’t care!

Why do I think like that?
Because I read the release note of 9.0.5, it says:

Destruction
Mastery: Chaotic Energies now properly increases the damage of Corruption.
Covenant Abilities
Scouring Tithe (Kyrian) now requires the Warlock to be facing its target.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

Frankly speaking, I do not understand the reason why you Blizzard buff a spell that is not even worth casting?
It is useless because it only deals 1700 base dmg over 14s and generates no resources, meanwhile Immolate deals 700 direct dmg + 3300 dmg over 18s with a resource generating ability! (Based on my 224 iLvl character)
I assume this fix is suggesting Destro use Corruption during fights, however, even if we ignore the fact that this dot is weak, another strange problem occurs.
This Corruption does not have any connections to the current Destro spell set.
If it’s weak and no connections to our main rotation, the motivation to use it becomes weird as well, seems like we are playing piano and suddenly a football horn is added by Blizzard, and get asked to use it while continuously performing a piece of classical music.
We still remember back in the old days, the Corruption always gets connections to the main rotation via some talents (e.g., the NightFall from Affliction Row).

Another ridiculous change of Kyrian Covenant Ability makes me laugh because I don’t even know it could be cast without facing the target after all these days playing M+ and Raids!
What is this fix? Just some trivial paddings to fill the Destro’s release notes so that other players won’t know you Blizzard are actually doing nothing!?
If you need ideas for fixing, please check the talent Internal Combustion and the Soulbind Conduit Combusting Engine, since currently, they do not seem to work together as expected.

Destro has its root weakness of the Shard system and mastery, however, I was very touched and glad to see there were buffs in the past few months.
The key point is that the Chaos Bolt does not worth its resource&time costs, which could also be simplified to “the Chaos Bolt is too week in raid situations”.
Casting a long spell, like Chaos Bolt, should be challenging and rewardful since without planning it’s just easy to get punished by any boss’s mechanisms.
But if a flat DPS output (i.e., barely has burst) like Destro with all his rotations perfectly executed in an ideal situation (e.g., hitting a dummy) still stays in the middle of the pack,
then in real fights, it will always be bad examples.

We do not need to mention the problem of lack of abilities to deal with the burst windows in Mythic Sun King’s Salvation or SludgeFist,
but in the boss fight like Mythic Hungering Destroyer (which is what I think the closest to a Patchwerk fight), I guess it is what it really looks like about Destro’s Single Target output. (Since I’m not allowed to post links here so I wrote some codes so that the WCL data are transferred to these Forum friendly charts)

Mythic Hungering Destroyer
95th Percentile Over a Range of 2 Weeks
Version 9.0
Last Updated: Mar/10/2021
========================================================== 6046.81 Shadow Priest
=================================================== 5832.24 Elemental Shaman
=================================================== 5830.75 Feral Druid
================================================= 5762.57 Affliction Warlock
============================================== 5682.33 Balance Druid
============================================= 5658.29 Marksmanship Hunter
=========================================== 5600.13 Fire Mage
======================================= 5475.74 Demonology Warlock
====================================== 5450.34 Unholy Death Knight
==================================== 5385.72 Subtlety Rogue
==================================== 5383.66 Outlaw Rogue
=================================== 5341.22 Beast Mastery
=================================== 5340.09 Assassination Rogue
================================== 5330.56 Windwalker Monk
================================= 5285.78 Frost Mage
============================== 5210.39 Restribution Paladin
============================== 5193.41 Arcane Mage
============================ 5134.73 Havoc Demon Hunter
=========================== 5116.47 Destruction Warlock
========================== 5083.66 Fury Warrior
======================== 5029.64 Arms Warrior
======================= 4988.79 Survival Hunter
====================== 4958.43 Frost Death Knight
==================== 4893.58 Enhancement Shaman

I believe every time we talk about Destro Single Target we always bring up its cleave ability: Havoc which may be an obstacle for Chaos Bolt buffs.
But in real duo fights like Mythic Huntsman Altimor, the Destro is just around the Shadow Priest who is much much better than Destro even in the single target fight of Hungering Destroyer.

Mythic Huntsman Altimor
95th Percentile Over a Range of 2 Weeks
Version 9.0
Last Updated: Mar/10/2021
============================================================= 8323.74 Affliction Warlock
======================================================= 8046.97 Balance Druid
=================================================== 7803.3 Destruction Warlock
================================================== 7771.22 Shadow Priest
============================================== 7574.17 Arms Warrior
============================================ 7465.5 Frost Death Knight
============================================ 7451.79 Frost Mage
========================================== 7371.41 Fury Warrior
========================================= 7315.15 Outlaw Rogue
======================================== 7272.75 Marksmanship Hunter
======================================= 7209.96 Unholy Death Knight
======================================= 7209.53 Windwalker Monk
====================================== 7154.08 Feral Druid
==================================== 7096.59 Fire Mage
================================= 6906.23 Demonology Warlock
================================ 6892.39 Havoc Demon Hunter
================================ 6865.31 Assassination Rogue
================================ 6851.62 Elemental Shaman
================================ 6848.82 Enhancement Shaman
============================= 6734.25 Retribution Paladin
============================ 6679.4 Arcane Mage
=========================== 6611.6 Survival Hunter
===================== 6306.79 Beast Mastery
==================== 6271.69 Subtlety Rogue

So here I have to say, I can’t see any logic behind this balance between single and duo target boss fights, please do not use this as an excuse to press down Destro’s output ability.
Or I (probably, we) will be heartbroken and quit.

We need serious rework over Destro (or even other specs).
If you guys really worry about the so-called unpredictable unleashed power of Destro’s cleave, you can simply limit it by adding buffs that only affect when Havoc is not working, e.g., when Havoc is not applied (no enemy has Havoc debuff), Chaos Bolt damage increases 40%. (Chaos Bolt increases 22% equals an overall 5% buff, so 40% will be a below 10% overall buff).
And yes, you can remove the PVP talent since it’s already there, or you just keep this buff away from PVP, please do not let PvE balance limited by PVP, they are different games.

BTW, I do like many new designs in this expansion, I’ll name several here:

  1. Talent: Rain of Chaos
    It’s a brilliant talent that implemented what I dreamed of a Destro Warlock, waving hands and brings raining Infernals, but even I like it, the number is too weak that I can barely choose it in real fights (the number here mainly indicates the CD of Infernal, a CD of 1.5 min would be ideal with or without the support of wrist legendary).

  2. Talent: Soul Fire
    I was so happy to see this old friend returned, with its full connections with Destro’s main rotation, it truly has a lot of potentials if it is a baseline spell.
    The current situation, in the talent, would be a waste.

  3. Kyrian: Path of Ascension
    It’s really fun and challenging to play. I have finished Trial of Humility and the experience is awesome, and there are rewards that for the harder achievements. However, even though I would like to search chests over the ShadowIsland every day to collect entrance tickets, the rewards which I think should’ve been better seem not that attractive (e.g., just black colored suit and wings).

I didn’t realize that I have written these many lines, just as what I have said I’m not a native speaker (if there are any confusing phrases here, please complain to my grammar checker software :)) and I subscribed to give a voice as a PvE Destro player.
My heart is dying, though I loved this game so much, I met my wife during raids, I came back to play the second day of my graduation ceremony, I even introduced my boss to play this old game…

Warlocks, I need your help, vote to let Blizzard hear our voice: please buff/rework Destro warlock.
My subscription only lasts for 1 month, if nothing happens, I guess I would just quietly go back to the Deathknell and sleep ever last.

12 Likes
2

No, it’s just for Torghast (when it gets boosted by certain anima powers). The corruption change was just a simple bug fix. Same for the Kyrian ability. It’s not worth overthinking.

1 Like
3

Thanks bro, for stating that they are actually doing nothing about buffing Destro in PvE in patch 9.0.5.

2 Likes
4

Well they are doing something. Destro’s been buffed, what, 3 times so far? It’s perfectly fine in M+, and is pretty solid in raid as well. Like, it definitely needs some changes, but complaining about a literal bug fix like this is beyond pointless. At best it dilutes real feedback.

1 Like
5

Omg, why are you being so negative? He just posted an amazing essay about all the problems of the spec and you’re focusing only in the wrong bugfix complain?

The internet is soooooooooo toxic, jesus.

4 Likes
6

Yes, I partially agree with you.

They did something that makes a simple sentence without details false like “doing nothing”, I have to add more description to make it right.
Don’t you think that is the purpose? for shutting up Destros‘ appeal so that they can “officially” ignore the root problems I stated above?

Solid or not is very subjective, but the numbers don’t lie.
This point is what I’m going to defend, Destro is underperformed in raid situation.

I assume you know how to check WCL, please go and see what I have mentioned in the main thread, the Mythic fights of Hungering Destroyer and Huntsman Altimor.
Please don’t get fooled by the “all bosses” label, if there are no The Council of Blood or Sun King’s Salvation (if you have fought with these two bosses, you know the dmg there is no real), the overall ranking will directly reveal the truth.

BTW, just like what you’ve said after all these buffs, Destro is still so bad at Raid, sincerely, could you just calm down and at least try to feel what a Destro player would feel after all these?

And one more thing, I’m not complaining about a bug fix, I’m giving feedback of a PvE Detro player, the problems that I have pointed out are there no matter you ignore or not.
And I actually illustrated a bug that is essential to Destro PvE of the soulbind conduit with the talent, that they didn’t fix yet.

Please try to be nice and real, less ironic. Thank you.

8

Your reasons are fair but your spec/class isn’t always gonna be good. Yea destro needs a few changes but so many classes/specs need a rework. Not like destro is horrible right now. Honestly demo deserves alot more work then destro even though i hate that spec.

2 Likes
9

Thank you, sir, I feel understood.

10

Since your message wasn’t directed at anyone in particular: I wasn’t being negative at all. I focused on one section of this post to add clarity to those particular comments.

I happen to think that Destruction is in a relatively good spot right now (top third of DPS specs overall), but I’ve made that point repeatedly on these forums and don’t feel the need to repeat myself in every single thread where I post. And before OP tells me to imagine how a Destruction player would feel: I am one, and have been one for longer than most people here. The reality of WoW is that they can’t balance all specs perfectly, and most specs are going to excel for a while and be less impressive at others. If there’s a spec that needs attention right now, it’s Demonology.

11

Destro’s gone from complete trash to mostly trash. Some things that still need addressing if they want us to stay:

  • Destro’s 3 damage types locked out from 1 kick
  • Destro’s immobility
  • Destro’s lack of durability
  • Destro’s reliance on hardcasting
  • Curses suck they are pure filler
  • Soul Fire not affected by backdraft
  • ALL Destro damage is wide-swing RNG thanks to the horrible mastery
  • Covenant abilities and soulbinds mostly meh and the good ones nerfed
  • Legendaries don’t add interesting elements to gameplay just QoL or Meta

I’ll be here all day listing issues with Destro so will give others a chance to post what they think.

The TL;DR version is the Warlock version of a hard-caster doesn’t do enough damage to justify the cast times, isn’t durable enough to justify the immobility, and the only utility we bring is a health stone.

13

Many of those are PvP issues, not PvE issues, and some of them are non-issues or aren’t specific to Destruction (e.g. covenant abilities/soulbinds).

14

Please list which ones in detail and why before I consider your opinion for validation. (especially since you’re one of those wide-eyed ‘everything is fine’ types.

15

I’ll get right on that—I’m very concerned with the validation of an ilvl 154 warlock who isn’t even wearing any greens anymore!

16

holy crap stylish got to max level

4 Likes
17

Yes, that’s true.

After all these years of waiting, I decided to do something.
When 7.0 started, I tried to provide feedback but just in the local Blizzard forum (I’m not sure that is heard by Blizzard). After that, I just thought Blizzard will not check those posts.

But several months ago I can see people talking about their warlock situations and the buff comes.
Especially, when Afflictions got buffed back from a ridiculous MR nerf,
I see this time I will rise and fight for my own (our) rights.
Every player pay the same money, they deserve a certain service,
why I have to stay behind and just wait or run away from what I have to do in all these years.

And surely, everyone can give his opinion and fight for it, as long as he can make fair points.
I’ll be your support and backup.

I’d do what I can to summarize the problem and trying to point out the root cause, this time I won’t step back.

We know this world is not perfect, but that should never ever be the excuse for not at least trying to get it better.

Thank you for having your reply!

3 Likes
18

After the most recent 5% buff to destro its main problem is the same as demo: aff is just too strong. It’s a few hundred DPS under aff in all situations so there’s just no reason to play it. Aff is right up there with Balance as the strongest DPS spec in the game right now so it’s hard to justify not playing it.

1 Like
19

trueeeee

but i do wish there was an easier way to explain that while aff when played properly just wins on all content including 2T cleave - that destro is going to be more user friendly in that scenario while doing slightly less damage but more clear optimization routes.

2 Likes
20

Aff isn’t as hard as they try to make it sound. You push 7 buttons in the correct order (and a weakaura can tell you which one is next) and then spam MR once every minute. IMO destro is harder to optimize since Chaos Bolt is such a long cast even with a good amount of haste and having to cancel one to dodge mechanics hurts so much.

1 Like
21

aff on 2 targets is signficantly more upkeep than destro especially when SE is factored into the mix during your burns - also idk what weakaura tells you which dot to press in what order, mine just show me durations and rotation helpers are just wrong most of the time.

im very firmly in the camp that you can get more out of destro with less frustration and play at a decent level than you can get with aff with teh same amount of effort.

2 Likes
22

Please hire a better warlock designer, not a PVP 1400 mage, BLZ.

Warlock players also pay the monthly bill, why everything is so unfair???

2 Likes