Also true 
The critique of borrowed power implies that the classes, without said power, are broken and unfun to play. Things like [The Entirety of Monk] need to be addressed before they work on some temporary bandaid for the third time. Theyâre wasting their development time on bandaids that could have been spent elsewhere. Itâs not that people hate new systems, but thereâs core concepts that have had glaring issues for a decade (since MoP and WoD).
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Its funny wow gets all this hate about âborrowed powerâ and not Diablo 3. EVERYONE who plays diablo wont get mad about the seasonal changes.
whats different in concept between seasonal changes in Diablo and expac systems in WoW? (i admit Corruption is a bit out there just bad balance) every system in wow is fine IMO but Corruption. Legion artifact? yeah i know a few ways to unscrew that (no relics or at least not destroyed when replaced) Essences? so what i love them. Paragon in Neck ilvl? who care if someone wants to farm all day for +1 secondary stat? like honestly it isnt the systems that are bad. In concept corruption IS AWESOME, just balanced poorly
I vastly prefer the old way. What theyâve been doing since Legion is boring and/or frustrating for the players and a monumental waste of resources for the devs.
Diablo is a different kind of game catered to a different demographic.
Diablo 3 is also hot garbage.
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you mean back in Vanilla where mages would fireball, fireball, fire blast for kills? where locks had 1 button rotations? ohhh you mean you get geared as much as possible and that wwas it. no content to do now but help others gear up. wait? thats exactly what we have now. SYSTEMS are fine. just balance in them needs work
I donât like rented powers because theyâve made classes feel boring by constantly screwing with their skill trees. A cool skill a class has this xpac will be gone next. The class never feels like the same class I once loved. I think most of the problem has to do more with class identity tbh.
- They remove core skills that all of a classesâ specs used and divided them up over the specs.
- They removed a spec, such as old survival, and made a new spec, such as new survival, when they shouldâve made a 4th spec instead.
- They took skills from a class, warlock, and gave it to another class, DH, when they shouldâve came up with new skills for DH instead.
- They rent us powers instead of fine tuning the current skill set. Renting powers is good for a quest, dungeon or possibly even a raid but not for a class/spec to use for prolong periods. And removing them just feels bad because they already lost the identity of a lot of classes by constantly screwing with their skills each xpac.
Give a class core skills each spec will use that will identify them as said class. Then give each spec some skills that will identify them as that spec. Then fine tune or give players options to fine tune individual skills to their playstyle. Keep rented powers to quests, dungeons and possibly raids.
To each their own.
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Oh you mean the old days where each expansion many classes would get redesign or get so many new tool kits that it caused skill bloat?
Them old days when expansion changed classes up so much, it no longer felt like the class you enjoyed? At least with borrow powers, It does not stay if I donât like said power or system.
Going back to pre borrow powers is worse of a developers time wasted.
Thatâs not what Iâm talking about and you know it. That bit wasnât even directed towards you. lol
Anyway⌠I mean the way that they handled class changes in the past. They developed them over the years. Some things were removed others added but our abilities were not linked to systems that are paradoxically both half-baked and overdesigned.
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Yup.
Itâs just tier set abilities by other means. Instead of raiding and mixing and matching sets to sequentially activate abilities, we do something like click on a ring to activate an ability.
And the devs know this so when they see something like âRemove all borrowed power!!!â they probably scratch their heads and conclude weâre crazy.
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Exactly, itâs tier sets, itâs legendaries hell its even talents, they have been changed or added to pretty significantly since vanilla.
When you look at it realistically shadowlands doesnât have that much more borrowed power.
you know weâve had class changes and systems since the game came out right? talking of abilities, world buffs, gear, systems, zone abilities, RACIALS have been changed. tell me of a string of patches that was completely balanced between all specs⌠oh yeah you cant. its the tuning of each system that needs work. not just scraping themâŚ
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Donât get me started on racials. Still not happy they took crit with bows away from trolls or the old BE silence even though I donât like elves.
Fun > balance
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To a point, but clearly the BfA systems did not work out well, and we ended up with multiple layers that werenât interesting or coherent. Azerite powers, essences, corruption. It ended up being excessive.
That shouldnât be the model in the future, and I donât think it will be.
The goal should be something similar to the artifact weapons in Legion, which were a combination of new abilities, lore, and cosmetic appearances, all of it tied into the expansionâs story, with a collecting aspect that players could carry forward.
The Covenants seem to be designed like that.
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IMO essences are fine. Corruption just needed numbers tuning. and Azerite traits is a a bowl of crap. too many spec relied on traits to be competitive.
There were other problems with these systems ( azertite being spec agnostic so it can be an RNG progress gate ) but I think one of the bigger ones is, combined they took 5 gear slots off the loot tables.
So everywhere else we just kept getting boots pants and gloves.
But none that has anything to do with it being borrowed power.
THIS HATE FOR BORROW POWER IS JUST SILLY
Is it though? Is it really?
You build a house. Lotta work involved. Then in 2 years itâs demolished and you build another, supposedly better. More work. And in 2 years thatâs torn down and you build another. On and on, the new replacing the old.
Some say this is how you keep too many houses from spoiling the scenery.
Others say, scenery also saved if you just renovate one house.
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Yes itâs silly.
Not because theyâre arenât problems with these systems. But because the problems have nothing to do with them being borrowed powers.
I agree that the issues this expansion were related to BfAâs systems moreoso than any inherent problem with expansion-specific abilities and power progression.
Itâs the opposite, if anything. Having a way to progress oneâs character other than gear is a positive thing. Gear in WoW is basically pretty boring.
Iâm looking forward to Torghast and crafting legendary items. Of course individual players will prefer different things, but I enjoy having a personal goal, something I can work towards and then bring with me into group content, which for me is mostly dungeons and raids.
thatâs the part I donât like
donât add something to our class thatâs not permanent
an example of good borrowed power would be the heart of azeroth essences, as they influence your class but arenât new learned abilities of any sort, so when we lose the item it makes sense to lose the power
azerite armor and the artifact weapon had this to an extent, but class design was so heavily built into them that itâs going to feel bad to lose
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