You don’t get my point and prefers to blind yourself I understand.
If I make 4 characters I can switch to them how I want. Not how the system want.
Which means the system doesn’t exist for me anymore.
I won.
I understand what you mean, but we’re not locked to one character. So we have multiple saves slot.
Being able to have a somewhat different gameplay experience on two characters of the same class can be a positive. I like the idea of a lightforged paladin, for example, but as of now I don’t have much reason to play one, since I play my human paladin quite a bit.
But then the same system can be perceived as an onerous burden if players begin to feel that they need four copies of every class, or a similar thing.
Is that somewhat similar to wanting a couple of different tanks versus feeling the need to have all the tank specs ready in case of balance changes? Yes, at least to a point. It’s just that players are used to one and not the other.
This will be partially a question of tuning. If the Covenant abilities offer overwhelming advantages, then that would be too much. But they can offer some advantages without creating a problem.
There are differences in spec and class performance across different types of content already. It doesn’t mean that everybody needs to have a geared character of every spec.
True - but taking that approach is punishing by nature since your time is wasted by leveling and gearing multiple versions of the same class.
You work around the idea of one class-one covenant; but you trade off one punishing way of playing for another.
When we just care that players are punished, in any way possible. we win either scenario.
Yes but then what about just making one character being able to grind all of them with time.
If time is enough of a punishment for you, it’s good enough like that.
It is. I’m in favor of the current systems approach specifically because of that.
What I don’t want is for players to be able to change their abilities based on the content they’re running whenever they like - because that would give them choices, player agency, and diversity to their gameplay.
But that’s not your answer to 4 characters, I would be able to switch HOW I WANT. not how the system want. So clearly we can get rid of that if for you time is a good enough punishment. We don’t need a cost to respec all time, we just need to earn it once.
But you’d only be able to gain that ability to switch after a significant cost.
Not only would you have to level each of those characters, but then you’d also have to spend time gearing each of those characters. That’s the cost to work around the system.
In that case - players are just trading one form of punishment for another. Which is why it’s win-win for us. Like I said - we don’t care what specific way people are exposed to consequences, we just want them to be exposed to them - especially when they’re not necessary.
You know, I wasn’t quite sure if your comments were serious. Then I remembered a guy I knew in college who swore he was into fat chicks. Nobody believed him either, until the first time he made a beeline to the fattest girl in the room at a party.
Point being, yes I do think sadists will get a kick out of this system.
And meaningless. Like garrisons.
We’re not shy about it.
Go search for Ralph’s threads or anyone else that supports the system.
We are all upfront about punishment and consequence being imposed on other players - even though the RP players that value a sense of loyalty can still choice only one covenant.
It’s the same for when we push for no-flying, or making pathfinder harder, or any other QoL change we want gone. The more people it impacts negatively - the better.
But the transmog…I think you underestimate the value so many people place on the aesthetics.
I know lots of people that Mythic raid - not for the parses or achievements, but for the transmog.
The non ability rewards are HIGHLY valuable to MANY players.
That is literally the only reason i play retail at this point, farming transmog.But even then i still agree with crimson to a point
Hell, somebody has to enjoy it. Maybe not the people that Ion thought, but whatever. Take what you can get!
Then the actual balance of the abilities really isn’t that important…
That’s a joke for me. Leveling can be done once and quick, even quicker with catchup with next expansion. Gearing with m+? That’s also a good one in a week I’ll be heroic geared on each of them. I already play this game a lot, for me doing somethign instead of another doesn’t mean anything. There’s no punishment for me. If that’s good enough for you to get your kink up I guess congratulation.
Spent all that time ranting about me being rude, and just continues being rude to everybody. take your own advice Zoumz.
I don’t judge his kink 
, I just think it’s meaningless for me.
Still being rude.
I didn’t take it as rude btw.
It’s not as ideal as I’d prefer in terms of punishing - but it’ll do.
I mean the other guy is a bit picky. I get your point, but since I’m in the min/max area and spreadsheets, I just see flaw in designs.
For me just the old Factions were more interesting when they locked people Alliance or Horde.
Those covenants are not really that important, I don’t see the point in sticking with them. Moreover, when they’re supposed to be somewhat allies vs the jailer? Like even the Aldor and Scryer were kinda awkward at the time, people just took one and forgot about the other most of the time. And that’s probably what will happen with covenants too for most people.