ugh…why bring back warforging/titanforging?
remove seasonal valor cap and just put in a weekly valor cap. Let us upgrade our gear as we THE PLAYER choose to.
I must have miss read where you put you in relation to the quotation makes my bad.
If they just had PL without trading restriction though then both sides are sorted. People who only want to gear themselves can and this rofbus who want to progress further can gear the whole raid.
Ideally yes, until it’s just ML with extra steps when all GMs put in their recruitment that gear will be traded to the GM for loot council during raid.
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At which point people don’t join the guild since PL is so beloved (according to people on here) and the guild can’t raid.
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What was brought up in another thread that I found a good idea is to have ALL gear, upgradeable with valor. Even world quest gear or crafted gear.
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and then join what guild? make my own? and then again were back at the point if I make my own guild it’s only advantageous as the GM to make them use ML as well so why wouldnt I.
your idea banks on the idealism all these kind souls exist that would willingly allocate power away from themselves for your gameplay.
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There are more advantages to have 20 raiders than having 14 raiders and getting them to trade all the loot from the bosses you aren’t killing to you.
If ml is so disliked and people on dherr claim then guilds will be forced to use PL as PL still. Alternatively if ml was actually a better system for guild progressing mythic (which is is) the guilds will trend more towards ml with extra steps.
Those extra steps offer protection for people who the forum lime to talk about as trials who “don’t get loot for months” even though I have never seen this actually been the case.
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Implying that causes leavers when again, if everywhere else is the same, where are you going? Back to heroic? same thing existed pre-legion, where were you going to go if you didn’t like ML? If the people had the viable option to find all these PL guilds they would have done so, they didn’t exist. The system you describe was already an option and it failed.
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So correct me if I wrong here but I think what you are saying that every raid leader would turn PL without trading restrictions into ml with extra steps. Which in turn causes people to leave since they want to keep the loot that dropped to them rather than gear the whole raid. They then leave causing guilds to fall apart and make new guilds. Then in these new guilds they decide to do the same thing that killed the last one?
That seems illogical if they are attempting to make a guild that they don’t want to die.
This is really a point I hope gets made a bit more in that Community Council thread. (It’s made a little, but not much).
MoP (and I think WoD) warforging was really a different thing than how people remember titanforging. MoP warforging was a single ilvl jump. That was it, no rolls within rolls for additional ilevels, just a single, small ilvl jump in the item.
Item upgrading was done mainly through valor points, the warforged item was just a small boost, and one that was easier to get from raids and which you wouldn’t be in competition with as many people for as the raid tier went on (because it dropped at a decent rate, and once people had their warforged item, they were done, unlike titanforging where there was practically never an end to the competition for an item).
It was a satisfying combination of non-RNG upgrading (valor points) and RNG upgrading (limited to a small, one-time ilvl boost, aside from the RNG of getting the gear drop itself). I don’t remember ever seeing a single person in-game complain about warforging in MoP. Titanforging though, I remember complaints about that almost immediately.
It’s like a lot of things in Blizzard’s history. They decided to fix something that wasn’t broken by adding more RNG. Valor upgrades went away, and all the upgrading that used to come from valor upgrading got sunk into additional ilvl RNG rolls renamed into “Titanforging.” (Worth noting, valor upgrades for RAID gear never came back, even though we have a version of it for M+ gear).
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So all your reasoning boils down to, some people might suck so I assume all people suck.
Not everyone is as power hungry as you. Its not always about power.
Dont join groups with master loot. East solution to your power trip problem. Lots of guilds chose personal loot when it was a choice. Just go to one of those.
This not what they said and you should know that.
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They do they are just pretending not to.
No they dont leave because their is no where to go and most players dont want to make their own guild. The few ones who do want their own guild will do so and keep ML because it’s only advantageous. No one can leave because you have ML because their is no where to go so there is no threat of your guild falling apart for using it because it’s been established as the norm.
Whether that’s illogical is irrelevant because it already happened, that was the entirety of the community during that time.
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Why are you guys derailing a thread about warforging with ML garbo?
See you say to me that
Where as you are going at least as far in the opposite direction to present only worst case scenarios.
I joined a guild on sylv lockout so have no current raid loot to talk about but the last time I did was bfa and we all traded loot to get the raid well geared. As a healer it meant I was geared last. I was still far better geared that anyone that I had this discussion with at the time.
Because the 2 are linked. Trading loot is made harder by forging. If they bring back any kind of forging they need to have loot tradeable soni can give away loot that I don’t want that is bis for other people.
because that was it. That is what happened. No one was willing to allocate power away from themselves and all used ML. That’s not an assumption or a bank, it’s just literally what happened. Unless we want to make the argument the wow community has gotten less progress driven and more compassionate in the last 6 years then there is no reason to believe it would be diff.
This ^
Again her argument goes back to the assumption it was “some”. Which isnt substantiated by anything. The only solid route we have is blizzard confirming the issue was prevalent in the legion-end qna. Other than that, players have no metric of the prevalence by themselves.
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personally the way i think war and titanforging should work. is it only works for questing gear and can only go up to 10 or 15 ilvl below normal of the current raid tier. so its only useful for alt catch up and you dont have to worry about it in raid and mythic + content
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