Theory regarding Arthas. Could he return?

Moon Guard
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Ever since the Shadowlands and the cutscene where Uther’s soul was split in two by Frostmourne it has always left open a possible idea that Arthas survived, or rather a part of him in the some manner. A fragment or such.

What if when he claimed Frostmourne his soul or being was split in 2, one part remained the other taken/removed/or separated. There was the theory that a part of the good that was Arthas first survived within his own heart.

If you recall the events of the Icecrown Quest Chain, you come across the heart in the deeps beneath the Icecrown Citadel and a ghost or apparition appears in the form of Matthias Lehner. Believed to be the last spark of his humanity.

Tirion only saw “shadows of the past remain” and destroyed it with Ashbringer wounding the Lich King. But given the nature of the object and its connection, what if the spiritual piece of Arthas still survived.

Given the nature of what we saw with Uther first, and then with Sylvanas, how their evil natures were in control first but only after reclaiming the other pieces were they made whole. Sylvannas good nature could not believe what she had become but was forced to accept it.

Now flash back to the events with Anduin and the Mourneblade he possessed. Using the fragment of Arthas soul that was collected when he was killed and tossed into the maw, the evil nature of Arthas disappeared upon the shattering of the blade into its 2 respected halves, something Zovaal knew nothing of.

So what remains or could remain of his other half? What if it merged with another soul or being? Could Arthas return in some form or conscious thought of another host?

Personally I’ve always believed that Arthas was wronged and should return but that is my belief. Not sure how others would feel.

Spoiler Idea
I thought of making a character that is host to the fragment that survived and guides a new life/paladin to redeem the mistakes of the past. Rasath Neltheim (anagram for Arthas Menethil).

I figured in some manner the split would have started (like split personalities) after the events of Stratholme. Killing so many could have been the beginning and grasping frostmourne sealed the split.

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Correct me if i am mistaken, but there is a scene in shadowlands where the last mote of arthas’ soul is extinguished for good. I dont see any way or reason for him to return, which isnt a bad thing.

He totally got screwed out of agency, threat, and so much more with all the shadowlands retcons but with the way the story is moving now, best to just let his character arc stay done and over with. Unless you want some rushed or contrived fan service moment which is about all i would expect from blizz regarding arthas post SL

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Andrihn has put the salient points concisely. Unfortunately, any return of Arthas would likely be poorly done or would require someone at Blizzard to simply state that Shadowlands did not happen. Hope in one hand, do something vulgar in the other, and see which one fills up first is a saying that comes to mind.

You are free to play whatever you see fit, and ultimately short of getting a GM message telling you otherwise, this is going to remain true. I would however advise against the character idea posited for anything in a public setting. There is a long standing stigma against playing characters that are even adjacent to major lore figures, and this only intensifies if one plays a lore figure in more direct means.

I’ll re-emphasize that this is not me saying you cannot, but I would prepare for people to be harsh towards the idea or be unwilling to interact over it.

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I honestly could care less about others approval of my choice of RP. They have no power over me especially if they don’t pay for my game time.

A stigma like that is because players are like sheep. They follow the shepard without any thoughts of story outside the box. I’m not saying i would approve of someone claiming to be a god of Azeroth. And this isn’t the case.

And no GM in this life or the next would tell a player they can’t choose their own roleplaying story or throw a concept or idea. I am certain there are those who would support Arthas being wronged hence the OP idea. And i am allowed to have an opinion and an idea.

And this is hardly direct means for glory. There are no followers, and my name isn’t being shown up in lights for others to bow down to. There is no golden idol pursuit or crusade at hand.

I am asking could Arthas return? His story is what drew so many through warcraft 3 and frozen throne since his face was on both game covers.

I see alot of love for the LK addon over any other.

I see time and time again how so many players would rather ignore the events of the SL from ever happening. Because in the end anything you do in this life prior to your characters lore “death” is meaningless if you are still given an automatic second chance per the Arbiter. Even the most evil souls are given a second pardoning.

Therefore any pursuit of his re-emergence is plausible. And even if blizzard did re-introduce it despite player protest, players would still play and rush for their own glory. Ignoring the story and just playing for the fun.

His face was the start of the game to glory and it would be a surprise to see him in the last addon at the end of the game.

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No GM has ever in the history of warcraft told a player they cannot role-play how they choose. What was your intended purpose with saying that?

If a player is going to be harsh regarding the sacred text that is lore then they need to unplug and come back to reality.

Any player could literally make up a story regarding all things happening. Blizzard provides the map and the locations, now the player just needs to plot the story like a dungeons and dragons model or scenario. Here are the materials now make something up with it.

Forget anything else like its meaningless and involve only those that want to play with your story.

Singling others out is not going to make them submit.

“We are but stars in the universe. We each exist in our own space. Some quite large with numerous bodies circling around, while others are small and alone. Single entities but we shine just the same. Are we defined by what we have around us? Or are we there to always shine a light in the infinite darkness? We each serve a purpose no matter what the reason. For what more reason does a star need to exist than to just be brilliant?” - I wrote this. Hope y’all enjoy.

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Telling someone “No you can’t do that.” vs “As the GM/DM I don’t want that kind of RP in my Guild and Events.” Are two very different things, granted he said the first part, but we all knew what he actually meant.

Prime example, I played a Blood Elf Blood Mage/Magister, and took a ton of my inspiration from Kael’thas, right? Then I see another Blood Mage/Magister and was like oh cool, checked him out to scout for a possible guild invite. And I read the dude was literally just Kael’thas with a different name. And we just passed him over. Players are always a reflection of their Guild, and the GMs will always answer for their players, and since the dawn of RP its an unwritten rule; you don’t play the main characters, just don’t. It’s a group effort not a solo story.

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Arthas was wronged, but it is better that he stay dead. His story ended where it should have in WotLK.

Likewise you can’t force other players to like or play along with this if they don’t like it if you RP your concept openly.

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Listen, i love arthas’ story and the very cool RP storylines it spawned, and no one is stopping you from playing however you would like. But arthas essentially no longer exists in warcrafts story, like he literally has nothing remaining of his being. Theres nothing left to bring back in the story, however if you want to RP a fragment of him ive seen stranger things on moonguard. As long as your having fun with it, RP whatever.

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The point of the statement is the intentional absurdity of being approached by a GM over a choice of roleplaying. It is very unlikely to happen and the chances of it happening over something benign and appropriate for the game’s age rating are so astronomically minimal as to be as close to nonexistence as is imaginable.

Apparently my emphasis was not enough, however, so I will rephrase it as clairvoyant as possibly as I may.

There is absolutely nothing and nobody that can stop you from writing what you would like to write. Even if you do not pay your own sub, even if you do not even play this game, you are still at liberty to write whatever you would like to.

However.

If you wish to do so with others or to have an audience, artistic vision must be compromised to create something that appeals to them. It isn’t impossible to find others who share your exact views and it’s a magnificent thing when you do; but anything done in a public space inevitably will demand some level of concession to the inherent cooperative nature of roleplaying on an MMO.

Just as nobody can be compelled to write what they do not want to, nobody can be compelled similarly to like something someone else creates. Nobody’s attention, time, or affections are obligations; merely given as the individual sees fit dependent upon the context of their circumstance.

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GM in wow lore is abbreviation for game master. Not guild master. The rule of RP main characters is not owned or enforced by anyone, if he wants to play as a main character i will play and support him because i am ok with it. I like having an alternative idea than just playing along to someone else’s story.

Blacklist, ignore, dislike that’s all just empty words for “I don’t like it because i have to have power over others and if i don’t then i will ban/report/complain like a Karen until i do.”

This is not a group effort, its a group option. And he’s not part of a guild so their power is non existent.

Just because a majority support an idea doesn’t make it a law. That’s a god complex.’

The Main OP he wrote was what would it be like if the prince returned. What does that or his choice in Role play story have to do with what you all approve of or disapprove.

You are players not gods get over it.

You don’t speak for everyone else, just yourself and your opinion.

You don’t like it just say it “I don’t like your idea and i don’t support it.” but don’t try to spout retort about your beliefs on how he should play because it doesn’t fit your perfect world.

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Actually Met, im just off on my own adventure in Northrend right now playing out my own story. No-one is around to see me play or being influenced by my actions.

I really don’t need an audience. This is not Tik Tok or Instagram, neither of which i use so I don’t need anyone to watch me. Do you?

My original question was what would players think if Arthas still survived? Can we stick to that please.

When people say “whatever” its like they still are bothered by my choices.

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are you looking for feedback or hype men

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You don’t like it just say it “I don’t like your idea and i don’t support it.” but don’t try to spout retort about your beliefs on how he should play because it doesn’t fit your perfect world.

Let’s wheel that projector back into the AV room; given nobody in the thread has uttered anything saying he cannot do what he wants but that he may not receive positive attention in public this is a pretty wild accusation. I have no idea what the rest of your post is even really talking about given you seem to be interpreting statements and positions I simply did not make and do not have.

If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is there to see it, did the tree even fall? Andrihn answered the first part of the thread very decisively. Following the lore, no, he cannot come back and is long john gone. Discarding or changing the lore; no, he shouldn’t come back because it would be mishandled.

If all you wanted to discuss is a hypothetical in which Arthas returns, then why mention a character you wanted to play? If all you’re doing is creating a context in of which to do content by yourself, then is it really roleplaying instead of just writing fan fiction? A key component to roleplaying in an MMO is the cooperation of other writers, without that, that is ultimately all we are doing. Is writing our own fan fiction. Nothing wrong with that, but that is all it is without the dynamic of multiple people working together to make something.

And if you didn’t want feedback on the idea itself, once again, why even mention it?

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That is the point, others will just ignore it. Some will have their little power trips, but that’s inherent on MG anymore. Just like you don’t acknowledge their choice, they get the same right. They don’t have to acknowledge that kind of RP.

FYI most of if not all Guild Masters, are the or one of the Guilds Dungeon Masters that’s why I said GM/DM (Guild Master/Dungeon Master)

Literally this boils down to, do what you feel but don’t expect everyone to buy into the story and don’t be crying about how people are making others RP a certain way, because no one is forcing anyone to do anything.

And how exactly would that be a God Complex? A Guild Master by all rights have the option to choose whose in their Guild. Most Guilds vet people anymore to weed out issues like RP styles not working with Guild philosophies. To call leadership a God Complex is possibly the craziest thing I’ve seen in ages. It’s their job to make decision like that. It only becomes a problem when they enforce those rules outside of their Guild.

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Personally I’d dislike it, Arthas story was a tragedy brought on him by his own decision misguided by the Dreadlord. He even went so far as to rip out his own heart to make himself undead.

That toppled with bringing dead people back to life, that were driving the story just makes everything we’ve done seem so pointless. Like Sylvanas, oh no she’s just a fractured soul she wasn’t bad. After killing how many people with absolutely screwed up tactics. No she became evil, period.

Next we’ll find out Sargeras wasn’t evil the whole time and was only fighting the void lords, and didn’t want Azeroth to join the void lords, and free him from the prison we’ve spend literal decades fighting for.

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Simple answer respecting my choice. I’m not in a guild so that’s irrelevant. However…

“You can do your own thing, but then nobody is going to like you especially if you do it near them.”

Basically.

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I can opt only to bathe once a week and that would be my choice with all the consequences that come with it. People can however warn me of such a decision, namely that it might cause negative effects on my health or make others less willing to want to be in my physical presence.

There are only so many polite ways to warn someone that an idea will not garner a warm reception. If this isn’t a problem, then the consequences would be entirely moot. In the same vein though, if the consequences are moot then what is the point of doing it?

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I certainly want Arthas to rest in the past. I don’t like how they brought him back in SL for various reasons and I personally wouldn’t like it if it happened again. I feel he was done dirty the last round we saw him(?), but I also feel he should not return.

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Would you say that Uther, Jaina and any other knights that followed but retreated are technically accessories to the murder of countless innocents in Stratholme or on the other side innocent of any involvement?

True they didn’t commit to the actions but two parties did not even bother to stop their prince, knowing full well the intentions and the outcomes of men women and children being murdered, regardless of their fates.

(Would a freeze spell to them likely prevent any transformation allowing time to cure?)

A theorized idea.

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Any action Uther and his Army would of taken against Arthas would be treason, and Jaina could be seen as someone who didn’t stop it.

Not following an order you think is wrong is entirely different than actively working against the Prince. You’ll be punished either way, but atleast one doesn’t get you killed regardless of how it turns out.

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