Totally agree i dont trust in the Eternal ones, they seem so fake, especially the winter queen
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Didnât Sylvanas spend like five expansions being fake?
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Why do you say she is willing? 
Like someone can say âno, piss off with that ideaâ to the JailerâŠYou mentioned it yourself that the Jailer will grind up your soul for breakfast and probably gets off doing it.
Are you really going to stand up to a raid boss who is apparently âTitan + +â as a lowly Night Elf undead? You got to be kidding me.
You said Disorder has been obliterating life off of countless planets and that the small (on the cosmic level) massarce of the world tree and the deaths of the 4th war really mean anything to cosmic beings? Thats like complaining about a piece of sand on a beach.
My retort was that cosmic force of Life is loving this death and destruction as they can make new life and planets for life to live on. Life is flourishing in this dynamic while death is oppressed/enslaved by the current closed loop situation we have right now.
How so? She had her free will and turned her back on death and embraced the Horde and strived for something more. When she realized that her race (the Forsaken) was going extinct, she tried to circumvent that by trying to enslave Eyir thus giving her countless Valkyr to ensure her and her racesâ survival then was told she had to play game with the Jailer or else be forced to do so: Death made her warchief and forced her to commit heinous acts of mass slaughter to appease Death.
Sylvanas is not innocentâŠjust simply wants to die in peace. This current system puts all in the cycle of slavery, one way or another.
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Then sheâs either a coward or she agrees with the Jailer. She doesnât really have anything at stake, so sheâs only afraid for her own life in this scenario. That doesnât make it any better. Hell, I might argue that makes her worse.
We have no way to measure what the scale of damage means to anything. If weâre gonna theorize, we might be able to say that although most worlds were wiped out, there were still enough to sustain the Shadowlands. Then the Arbiter breaks, and Azeroth - a planet rich in spirit, and a Titan soul that Sargeras himself wanted to get his hands on SO badly that he invaded it thrice - proceeds to dump a metric ton of souls into the Maw, along with anyone else left in the cosmos who dies at the time.
The point still stands, regardless of whatever dance Life and Death were doing before everything broke.
Ok. Much of what you just said isnât relevant, because we know for a fact that Sylvanas buddied up with the Jailer directly after Wrath (in Edge of Night). She never really cared about the Forsakenâs extinction (she described them as âarrows in her quiverâ), and she was right in line with the plans to make her Warchief.
Sylvanas is not some helpless captive at the Jailerâs mercy here. Sheâs a partner in crime, and equally as culpable. I donât really care if she wants to âdie in peace,â since her way of supposedly going about it (assuming your headcanon is correct) involves destroying everything and everyone.
At best, your version of Sylvanas is a selfish and cowardly monster.
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What about her soul?
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Same difference. If sheâs only doing the Jailerâs bidding because sheâs afraid to stand up to him out of fear of losing her life or her soul, I can honestly say the character would be a worse one than if she actually agreed with him.
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She could be in the same predicament with the Jailer, as Azshara was with NâZoth. Serve or die kinda thing.
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Sylvanas seems under the assumption that any system that would place her in the Maw is both cruel and unfair. Thus, consequently, any such system must be disassembled. And her being her, sheâs conflated âwhatâs good for herâ with âwhat is good for everyone elseâ. So, theoretically, her goal is to simply free herself from the system and find ârelease from her tormentâ.
That being said, Iâm not convinced it will reach that point. The Jailor has already pulled a Sylvie classic with Denathrius, so the idea heâs probably doing that with Sylvanas herself is high. On top of this, the chances that it was not the Arbiter system that chucked her into the Maw (but rather than Jailor through her Primes) is also high. So ⊠with her being part of the next raid, I could very well see a âuse and discard herâ situation with a âher seeing the world as it really isâ being no more than âher seeing the world how someone else wanted her toâ twist. Because it got her to act in a way convenient for them. Yâknow, the same crap sheâs pulled on so many others over the years⊠Then sheâll revenge-trip it up again.
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Well could be more souls that gets a unfair treatment with the afterlife, its not fair a âjudgeâ to decide our fate, its literally a prison.
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I think if youâre supposedly trying to break something that you construe as a prison, the last person you want to ally up with is someone named âthe Jailer.â
Itâs not a prison. Itâs just a prison because it treats the person most important to Sylvanas unfairly.
Then who should? Should people just decide where to go by themselves, when they have no knowledge of the afterlife at all? They wouldnât know where to go. Not to mention that certain souls because of their conduct in life should not get that option in the first place. They should have to atone first, or frankly just end up in hell.
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+/- theres souls that cant be redemed if they dont want to, thats why existes revendreath, why Sylvanas went directly to the maw after all the good she did as a ranger? if she was transformed to a banshee wasnt her choice, its unfair that she goes to the maw, im sure theres a lot of souls like her that were judged wrong, they need to rebuilt to something more fair, its a failure, at least gives the soul a chance to argue with the sentence, not just a ârobotâ. its why i dont like the âcristianismâ way to see god, its exactly like shadowlands, i have my own theory about god. i went to a spiritual way that i can feel god without a religion.
Did you also know that if you fail to redeem yourself in Revandreth, you get flung directly into the maw, forever? Itâs not a guarantee, itâs a chance. A chance that not everyone takes I might add.
Also, you said that a âjudgeâ that is the Arbiter shouldnât decide where souls go. If you had your way, no one would end up in Revendreth, because no one willingly goes there.
Beyond the atrocities she commited in undeath, the Jailer may very well have janked her out of the system in order to frighten her into serving him.
It wasnât her choice to be raised, sure. But everything she has done after she was freed from Arthas grasp has been out of her own free will, for her own selfish desires. That alone may not have condemmned her to the maw, but certainly to Revandreth. And now, after everything she has done? Straight to the maw for her.
Why? Charisma should have no bearing on where you end up.
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well for me its a garbage system that needs to go away together with the eternal ones, but i doublt blizzard will do a masterpiece like that, we shall see, but i understand your opinion, i think its depends of how we see it, I see in a way that i dont like it xD
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Because of the fact that one character, who wasnât exactly an angel, possibly ended up in the Maw for reasons we donât even know? And you wonder why people call you a simp.
Well, ultimately I donât care why Sylvanas did what she did, or have done what she has done. It doesnât matter. No reason is good enough to justify her actions. The ends are not justified when the means are this horrible. I can only hope that she gets what she deserves in 9.1.
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yeah its your opinion i have a different one, with this same thought everyone who helped to burn Teldrassil even Saurfang is going to the Maw, every horde player is going to the maw, but yeeehh nvm. its ok, i think u guys will have a chance to hit her, if sheâs dying only the devs knows but i think its the only chance u will taste to a revenge, i wont get offended by a word âsimpâ anymore if im a simp so be it =)
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I really donât think Sylvanas had an end game. Itâs becoming more clear how manipulated sheâs been, so the âbroken systemâ as she views it could simply be more manipulation. Yeah, there is a lot of things going wrong in the Shadowlands, but sheâs riding that wave by siding with the Jailer. Maldraxxus in civil war, Ardenwealdâs drought, it all points back to the Jailer.
If this turns out to be true, it really will be disappointing to see Sylvanas turned from a confident, master tactician into a young adult that is manipulated by some authoritarian figure, I mean Anduin is being presented as her opposite now and knows the âright wayâ more than she did.
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The fact that I still donât know what she wants is worrying. Its probably going to be disappointing.
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It being disappointing was never in question. This is Acti-Blizz after all.
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I dunno, I think itâs more about the nuance of not getting a choice. When she died a hero she went to a warm happy afterlife, and her soul was ripped back and she was enslaved and made to do terrible things not under her own control, but she was allowed to keep her mind so her mind was essentially trapped in her body watching herself to terrible things like murdering her own people.
Then she broke free and wanted revenge, but that revenge was stolen from her and she realized that the cycle that made her a victim would continue until she took up that mantle herself.
When she tried to die and reclaim the happy afterlife she felt she was owed, she woke up in the Maw, and we still donât know why. She was given an ultimatum to serve the jailer or stay in the Maw for eternity and she took it.
I would say that she probably just wants death to be fair to her specifically.
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