But there is something difficult about grabbing packs and mass aoeing?
Both are situationally difficult in respective scenarios if done correctly.
You realize you don’t NEED to time, right?
You can scrub your way through a mythic dungeon for as long as you want and still get loot and vault at the end. They even have a dropdown option in LFG to indicate that your group is there just for completion.
Sure, you won’t upgrade your key, but if you’re gonna be a scrub, getting +2 gear and vault every week should be plenty. And hey, maybe once in a while you DO time and then you get to scrub your way through a +3, +4 or even +5.
High keys are actually pretty chill most of the time because you see the same people playing at whatever time you play everyday.
not much toxicity and if you actually were running higher keys you’d know that! hope you find some enjoyment 
But that’s the issue. I think you should still be able to upgrade the key.
The punishment should be the time spent.
Well I don’t play retail so I don’t know.
But when I did it was the same story. Trying to pug was a nightmare and if I’m getting into a guild that was too much commitment for what I was trying to do in Retail at that point anyways.
If you don’t play retail why are you trying to change something that doesn’t even affect you in the slightest?
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Because he’s a terrible troll
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Quotes. I’ve been a negative nancy to them about DF and it’s actually coming true. Most of them have returned full time to WotLK (which as a RL is completely fine to me).
Go through my post history and I’m not a fan at all how Blizzard does things in Retail. Thought this post would be somewhat constructive but there are always defenders even when there are areas with potential improvement.
Yeah… but again this doesn’t matter to you! have fun in wotlk if that’s what you enjoy bro.
you don’t need to explain yourself or give reasons just play whatever u want bro
The timers might be too aggressive, but having some sort of timer is good. The vast majority of players don’t want to play through a 4-hour key. Maybe there could be a 1.5-hour timer just to keep things from getting truly degenerate? I think it would be more interesting if damage mitigation and healing became a lot more important for pushing (hopefully without full tank meta becoming a thing).
Another idea would be to not penalize people for going over the timer a bit by keeping the key level the same instead of decreasing by 1 on a failed timer. Honestly, I think people should be able to run whatever key level they want (that they’ve unlocked, kind of like D3 greater rifts). Just have the keystone determine which dungeon you can run but not the level. The timer is far less toxic than the brutally punishing keystone level system.
The idea to never play retail again isn’t something I hold near and dear to my heart.
It’s simply a reality of the situation. I would love to play a modern version of the game. It just doesn’t exist in a state I feel is in line with how the classic version first addressed the issues.
So I made a post on something I really hated about a feature I always looked forward too in Retail.
People are still rewarded for missing the timer though.
and again these timers are so cosmetic until like +20s which no one in this thread is currently doing. so it really doesn’t matter
if you play well you time it. it’s simple. at the +10 level you’re not going to brick a key from just DPS. so why worry about the timer.
But that would break the design of the key progression system.
The timer allows the key progression to be softer. Sure, everyone hits a wall where they run into a key level they can’t surpass. With a timer, the wall isn’t a hard stop. You first fail to time the key, but you get gear and a chance to slowly get better. And even when you time it, you can still work on improving your time and shaving seconds off. Even if you can’t survive in a +15 and keep getting 1 shot, you can improve your record on +14 and feel like you are improving and getting better slowly.
What you are suggesting would result in a hard wall where you hit +15 and that’s it. There’s nothing to get better on, there’s no way to improve personally, you just hit a wall and stop. That’s how raiding works and why heroic raid guilds tend to fall apart once they get AoTC, because they know that Mythic is a hard wall and rerunning the same heroic bosses has zero benefit or sense of improvement.
And M+ is an improvement on that, which is part of why it has so much more longevity and popularity.
blizzard will probably bring heroic+ to retail TBH.
Can’t wat
they do. it’s called m0s.
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I see what you’re saying here but it somewhat is a hard stop. Is everyone going to stay in the group after a key fails? Are you still going to even be able to complete the dungeon?
Change strategies? Different group comp? Farm more gear from other instances.
With the timer once it hits zero you’re done and out of options.
Heroic Plus Dungeons
When Ulduar releases in Phase 2 of Wrath Classic, all 10-man loot from Phase 1 of Wrath Classic will be moved to Heroic Dungeons, in a new version of the dungeon with an increased difficulty. Players will have the ability to increase the difficulty on Heroic Dungeons, granting the loot drops from 10-man Phase 1 raids.
This is a significant change to Wrath Classic, and explains the vague Blue Post that referenced Heroic Dungeons getting additional challenges added –
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You get gear and crafting materials even if you fail the timer.
non-issue, if you want score, you have to earn it.
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Why can’t it just be more difficult and not have a timer?
I’m sure the developers could still determine a “failed” dungeon and act appropriately if they felt it was required.
The timers are absolutely relevant at all levels of play since it limits the number of mistakes you can make in lower keys. My end goal isn’t to time +10s either, it’s to time +15s for KSM and in most seasons +15 is where the timer really starts to matter.