The way I'd change Death and Decay. Let me know if it's too OP or ridiculous

Classes Death Knight
1

TLDR: Turn Death and Decay into a player localized radial AoE that moves outward like a mage’s Blast Wave or Frost Nova. Make it shadowy/smokey like Malthael’s spell from D3/Heroes of the Storm. Make it a Debuff/DoT that will deal the same amount of damage as if the mob spent the entire duration inside of your Death and Decay spell. The debuff would allow you to cleave to the targets that have it. (either removing, or keeping the current target count limitations) The casting DK would get a buff that would give all of the other effects of standing in your Death and Decay like the haste, or damage reduction, or healing increase Ect… It would make it easier to use while kiting/gathering mobs. You wouldn’t have to worry about tanks pulling mobs out of it, and it would clear up ground clutter so the spell effects wouldn’t block ground based mechanics.

So, we know that a lot of players are struggling to find any fun with Death and Decay. This is a very common complaint. People are ok with using it for cleave, but don’t like having to put it down where people can easily move out of it, and they can’t use it while gathering mobs in M+. Here’s my thought. Lets see what you think.

Get rid of it and completely change the ability. Hear me out.

Keep the name and make it a radial AoE (360) that blasts out from your character. (Frost Nova/blast wave style) Give it a new animation of smoke and shadow kind of like Malthael from D3.

The radius can still be the same as a Death and Decay. It would apply a debuff to all enemies it hits. This debuff acts as a DoT that deals as much damage as a Death and Decay would do over the full duration of the spell assuming the mob stood in it the entire time. It would also allow your Obliterate/Scourge Strike/Heart Strike to hit all mobs with the debuff. (We can keep the current target count limitations if we wanted to. Oblit would hit 2 random enemies with the debuff, heart strike will hit 5 Ect…)

Call the debuff “Defile”. When cast, the DK will get a buff called “Defiler”, and it would add onto the DK all of the buffs that you normally get from standing in your Death and Decay. (Haste, damage reduction/healing increase Ect…)

The Defile talent for Unholy would change to “Death Shroud”, which is a callback to Malthael in Heroes of the Storm with his mist/smoke/shadow ability in that game. And the talent would give all the benefits that defile currently gives Unholy, like increased radius on the spell and a reduced CD.

It would still require skill to use because of the duration to CD ratio. So you’d still have to plan your rotation around it. You just wouldn’t have to worry about placing it on the ground anymore.

This change solves three major issues with the spell. Tanks can’t run out of a DoT. It’s no longer placed on the ground, so it can’t be moved out of. It’s simply a debuff applied to the target. Because it’s not placed on the ground it can be used while gathering mobs to be able to AoE while on the move in M+, instead of having to wait for the tank to stop before placing it. And third, it’ll clean up ground clutter. A lot of complaints are about how Defile in particular covers up a lot of ground mechanics and makes it hard to see. This spell would be like Blast Wave or Frost Nova. One and done. Smoke blasts out from your character and then the animation is done.

We could even have a glyph that turns the smoke blue for frost for those that want a more icy looking effect to match the theme better.

The ONLY thing I can really see that might not be great is for Blood DK’s who still might like to toss the Death and Decay away from them on mobs in front of them Ect.

Thought? Comments? Concerns?

Edit: Added TLDR.

6 Likes
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That’s not Death and Decay though. Just make a whole new ability in this case and don’t call it Death and Decay.

My question… Why use DnD while gathering mobs and not when they have been gathered? Just sounds like a misuse of the spell. It’s akin to using Vile Taint, earthquake, rain of fire and similar abilities during a time you shouldn’t be using them. Things shouldn’t change because some people are bad and misuse spells.

DnD isnt as punishing as it was and an ability that is misused should be punished. A tank moving the DK out of DnD is a misuse of the spell just like any other ground targeted ability that requires the tank to do minimal to little movement. The tank would be actively contributing to slowing the run down in these cases which is a tell tale sign that the tank is bad. Don’t play with bad tanks.

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Yeah, that’s the point. To completely change the ability into something useful.

There’s nothing wrong with keeping the name.

We don’t, and that’s the problem. So much of our AoE cleave is tied to DnD that not being able to use it on the move hurts us. Especially compared to other dps classes that have mobile dps like Warriors, Pallies, Shammies, Druids, Rogues ect… who can all do full damage while gathering as well as once they’ve been gathered. Meanwhile DK’s (as well as a few other classes) are left struggling to keep up and pull their weight.

Abilities which are also a point of contention for those classes. But since I plan on playing my DK next expansion, I’m advocating for DK’s and not those other classes.

Which is it of our control. A point this would fix.

A lot of us pug our groups and have no way to vet weather or not a tank is going to play well or not until it’s too late. Sometimes playing with friends or guilds isn’t an option and you need a rando to tank for you. Then they pull out of your DnD and your Dps suffers for it.

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Increase DnD duration by 5 seconds. Allowing to place before pillar and for it last the full duration with new pillar talents. Remove rune cost. Keep CD.

^Fixed DnD!

Despite the way people talk say about it on here, DnD is incredibly versatile and allows dk to cleave at anytime with little investment and continuing their st rotation. With changes to Dnd allowing you to move in and out for 4 seconds the whole “move for swirley” argument is gone. And if its a move is required that is larger than that, theres probably a timer and you misplayed. Just like any class that blew a cd during a big move would feel.

No, I would like to be able to attack things during dnd and pillar windows that weren’t there at the beginning of the pull.

People can say what they want but this is user issues. Learn to read the room, the tank, your timers, their cds, your cds. 9.9/10 times its not a good idea to blow everything on pull. Give the group a couple RI stacks get your IT stacks up let tank get aggro and situated - then go. Timing of CDs is everything. If your tank doesn’t stop moving for 12-18 seconds. Don’t group with them again… sanguine/storming are gone. You can move in and out of dnd and only you have to be in dnd not the mobs place dnd leading in the direction the tank will be moving or kiting. :person_shrugging:

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So what about other ground targeted aoe? Going to redo all of those too because people are impatient and you should be doing full aoe damage while mobs are being gathered?

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What you’re describing kind of sounds like remorseless winter, which I think should replace DND for frost, but shrug

I agree the spell feels kinda lackluster and in need of a little something beyond cleaving, I don’t think it needs that much of a work over. Tank pulling away issues sounds like more of an problem when people start running through dungeons later in an expansion cycle.

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The thing is, there is a lot out of your control as a DPS. Mob placement, your overall survival, you arent that responsible for the content being completed though you contribute to it but if the healer or tank screw up thats basically a wrap.

So where do you draw the line? Just remove all ground targeted aoe unless you are a tank because the mobs staying within or close to that area is completely out of the hands of the dps?

Does MMO just doesnt matter where the group has to play as a group? Thats why the control thing was dropped and now people are saying “its more punishing” because the control argument just doesnt work out in the bigger picture.

Its why I have been saying that its not a problem mechanically with DnD, its with tanks. The bigger reason why DnD should go is with the DoT argument. DoTs are kept kind of low because of the aoe spread they are capable of which hurts them in ST, that same thing can be applied to any single target ability that also does aoe / cleave. Its ST damage can be kept lower due to the cleave that is possible. That is a much better argument as to why cleaving strikes should be gone. But thats not what the forums want, they want all of the upsides and 0 downsides. Basically, to be OP.

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Have you seen the damage dks are doing right now?

Anyway I think cleaving should be tied to remorseless winter, I disliked dnd too back when I played frost dk, I would even spec into the dnd slow so tanks wouldn’t pull mobs out as fast, but yeah I like your suggestion it’s very similar to blood of the enemy in bfa.

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My brother, this is an idea that’s been floating around forever, there was an extensive thread discussion under a week ago. Also, don’t bother trying to talk to Kelliste, the person is not worth trying to have a rational discussion with. They’re quite literally the forum sourpuss.

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Just turn DnD into Unholy’s version of Remorseless Winter and allow cleaving to happen when active.

Lazy? Yes, for sure. But would anyone be mad about it?

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Its already been talked about by others of why Cleaving Strikes on RW would actually be a bad thing.

Also, the enemies do not need to be in DnD for you to cleave, only you do.

No, the idea that has been floating around is putting it on RW or making DnD an aura because “mograine has it” this is a completely different spell just being called death and decay when it doesnt resemble death and decay AT ALL. Death and Decay is a lich based spell that is ground targeted, it taken right from the Hyjal fight. The DnD in Heroes of the Storm is a little different in that its a skill shot that creates an area of decay when it hits an enemy.

What this suggestion is like is the skill Epidemic from GW2 though instead of spreading your dots it applies a debuff to enemies to be cleaved to while also applying a buff to you to gain the other benefits from DnD because standing in DnD is too hard.

DnD applies buffs to you, and only you need to be in it. So realistically this is just a more complex way to just give DK sweeping strikes along with it not fitting DK at all. And quit being salty because you got completely shut down with logic. You and Nevermore were acting like not moving is some elitist form of gameplay, and you had absolutely nothing to respond with other than “wah you dont play therefor you wrong and bad!”

Why bother faffing around with all this crap and just make everything cleave? Thats essentially what people want, just allow Obliterate to always hit 3 targets, always allow Frost Strike to cleave, always allow Death Coil to hit 2 targets, always allow Scourge Strike to cleave, always allow heart strike to hit max number of targets… why beat around the bush? It sounds like you guys dont actually want to play an MMO, if you cant stand something being out of your control then an MMO isnt for you.

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Why are you arguing semantics, who cares about the name of the spell? What’s important is how the spell functions and it’s not fun to place your DnD and the tank moving the mobs out of range. This happens in pugs, you can say it doesn’t but it does, it’s frustrating. I think the OP’s suggestion is great, it would be more similar to shadow crash or liquid magma totem. Imagine LMT or SC would function like current DnD does, nobody would play ele’s or sp’s.

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Because its not ok to call a thing something it isnt.

Play with better tanks. You guys have some of THE WORST arguments. You make it sound like the tank is just WAITING for you to put your DnD down to troll you, but in reality its most likely your own fault for placing it poorly or at the wrong time.

Then dont pug.

Then dont pug. Problem solved.

Its convoluted and overly complex for the sake of trying to tick boxes.

No it quite literally isnt… or am I just arguing semantics when he quite literally said Nova or Blastwave. Those are not like Shadow Crash or magma totem.

But LMT does function as DnD unless you are just wanting to apply Flame Shock which get rid of the rest of what the totem does. because the tank can absolutely reduce Ele damage by moving enemies away from the totem and its limited to 9 yards.

You also have 2 Shadow Crashes. One is at the target and one is at a location. The location targeted one is better.

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Yeah, now you’re getting it.

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Just get rid of DnD and put the damage into Howling Blast cleave, frost fever, and remorseless winter for Frost. Same adjustment for Unholy/Blood with their specific spells.

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I understood it from the start. Its still not DnD. Cleaving Strikes shouldnt exist period because its a limiting factor of Obliterate damage just like multi-dotting is a limiting factor for dot damage.

Just bake it into Blood. I dont think anyone really cares that Heart Strike hits a few more enemies since it already cleaves.

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Or let’s change Death And Decay suchly…

Desecrated Ground
Your Death and Decay creeps along the ground towards the nearest/largest collection of enemies.

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Id like to get back old icecap, or at least 30 second pillar if not.

F this 45 sec pillar

That’s pretty much all i ask for now.

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id like to see pof to go back to 20 sec on a 1 min cd. 30% seems a tad high to me maybe 20-25%

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With enduring strength you would have permanent str buff. 30sec with no enduring would be fair. But massive amounts of pof uptime reduces the value of crit, so there needs to be something balancing that out too