I liked your post for the effort and passion, although I disagree on some things.
Here: 
1.12 is not really Vanilla, it’s the pre TBC patch. It was my favorite furry warrior patch, but it’s not the MC patch. It’s like trying to say 8.3 will give you the same authentic BFA experience as 8.1 and there is no way that the misery of 8.1 is the same as 8.3.
LoL what do you disagree on?
Esfand was pretty innocent if you dig into it. Streamers aren’t that bad. I play Horde opposed to Asmo, and it’s pretty fun. I was skeptical playing there but glad I’m over there now. Economy is super strong compared to other servers which is something that is important to me.
lol you really think there weren’t guilds that would kick you tf out of a raiding position for changing spec, or not being what they wanted you to spec in vanilla? your memory is bad, or you weren’t there since 04 because i remember clear.
Here’s a tip.
Stop watching streamers.
Who gives a flying fork what some 2-bit neckbeard with a webcam thinks about literally anything.
I don’t see any of this crap you’re talking about in game and it’s not on my mind cause I don’t listen to dumb heads talk about it on youtube.
Keep your mind free of BS. You only have so many thoughts each day, make them count.
3 Likes
No offense, but Wrath was extremely under-tuned compared to TBC in every respect. Most people like Wrath because of that. The content was so easy, people were smashing raids in a few days. I remember when Naxx came out and it only took like a week or something for world first. The dungeons were faceroll because TPS was gone. Coming from Sunwell it was hilariously, stupidly, easy. I will say I loved Northrend, the story was great, and Uld was the best raid (no one did) they ever made imho.
TBC and Wrath are totally different experiences, geared towards totally different audiences. Wrath was the start of decline with the introduction of Gearscore and Dungeon finder.
2 Likes
I agree that Wrath dungeons were undertuned. Everything else felt great.
1 Like
WoW streamers are a form of cancer but so are the people who go by the meta build mentality.
Classic WoW is the best part of vanilla WoW cause almost every spec is viable to a degree compared to say 1.6 or earlier. Some specs aren’t doable at all (like a deep survival hunter) but specs like ret,sp,enhance,feral and a few others should be fine.
I like the manority of your retail suggestions. For me the difficulty is a really big one with everything else you mentioned. I want the world, questing, leveling to be challenging again. Pull to many mobs you die. I want BC style heroic dungeons that are really hard.
I’d really like professions to be reworked and interesting and fun again.
Scaling needs to go, especially in pvp and battlegrounds.
Loot scarcity needs to increase.
It could be done, but retail would need a big overhaul to fix. Almost a whole design philosophy switch. Which wouldn’t be impossible, they did it once already.
Stop worrying about what others do or want and do what you want. Streaming wasn’t even in the ‘vanilla experience’ because twitch or justin didn’t exist in 2005.
Wow is a game which was born out of the frustrations that Everquest had and had the backing of a large gaming multinational with a huge fanbase, and once they worked out they created a gold mine, subscription retention was the key driver to make any changes. Cater for the masses.
In retail, subscriptions will undoubtedly be shrinking, and there was clear market research to suggest that people want what they remember the game to be as it has warped into something else now. The Classic Experiment will either succeed or fail, and it’s great that Blizzard is trying to keep to the scope of what it used to be by not making many changes to the core system. If it is successful, I guarantee there will be new content made for it but without the “easy mode” quality of life systems such as near-infinite bag space, LFG/Raid Finder with a focus on groups, sociability, teamwork, a choice to make between Alliance v Horde.
To think people in Vanilla didn’t know BiS items / How to lvl fast / Efficient ways of doing things youre pretty naïve. Now most stuff is known by 90% of the community.
don’t include me in your “we”. you dont know how i think or how i enjoy stuff.
um…you realize even vanilla had spells locked right??
they cant balance the few options we have in retail…why would they be better with more???
will likely happen as numbers are getting huge again…but then again do this enoguh and ur gonna have same stats as a lvl 10 as u did at lvl1…
part of an RPG.
yes we do…stats are designed for PvE content. players dont have the healthpools/dmg/etc that enemy mobs do.
M+ is fine (favoring specific classes is the issue)
and RNG has always existed…retail just has it set to 11.
They didn’t ruin it for me.
That might be true for people that raided, but only a small percentage of vanilla players even used add ons, or even raided.
Its more like older gamers like myself can’t understand a fascination of watching others play a game, regardless of if they are entertaining.
Gaming for us older folks means actually playing the game. Guessing its a generational thing, but personally I can’t stand the thought of streamers and their gaggle of fans following them around floating by me while i’m playing.
1 Like
Agree here, I remember in TBC the first mob i fought i was like oh no you gotta be kidding me, i’m level 60 your level 60 and it almost took everything i had to down it. LOL
Wrath… um, not so much… I did like the story line and the Raids were beautifully designed as previously, but yeah it was not hard like prior expansion and vanilla. But as it went along we all knew why… “2 raid types” regular and hard. The beginning of the down fall.
If it has a major issue - it isn’t fine.
And, to me, it sounds like the guy was saying “get rid of the diablo meta of excessive rng on loot”
I don’t know that I agree with Nagual, but you seem to be trying to miss his points.
You saw the same classes during vanilla. The optimal vs meme spec isn’t new, and is literally a vanilla experience.
The vanilla experience is literally classic. It’s the gameplay, not the nostalgia. No one was asking for the memories, everyone was asking for the game before they completely changed it.
But the more you read of your post the more it becomes clear that your entire point of saying that the experience isn’t here is because you want them to change classic to be more like retail.
This is the only part of your post that matters. This is what you’re really trying to say, and your complaints about not being able to get the vanilla experience is just an attempt at cover to cry about how they need to make the game more like classic.
Go play classic. It exists, with all the things you think are important to make wow better.
Classic isn’t Vanilla, and it isn’t truly a fresh experience.
Having said that -I find there are moments when it feels like it did in Vanilla. Teamed up with a Tauren hunter for Crown of Will last night - just like I did it with my buddy in Classic. It went about the same - working well together… until we got nailed by a dozen respawns. Rez… more respawns, which we manage to beat down barely, and then a human runs by with a train of mobs… and they dump on us. Boom. Hilarious amount of crap.
It was a Vanilla moment for me.
At teh same time - after 10 years of wow, and 13 or 14 since Vanilla, I have moments where I look around, and can appreciate how good a job teh game does of creating a world. I remember exploring as a lone toon in Vanilla, and being impressed at how the terrain was formed and taken advantage of to stage various quests and groups of mobs. Stranglethorn being on of the best examples. It’s a big zone, but every little clearing and rise is used to seperate things, giving a feeling of wide spaces, even though it’s just a lot of ridges everywhere.
It’s like the second or 3rd watching of a solid movie - sure, the twists and jumps don’t catch you, but you can notice the details more.