The Vanilla experience is really not here anymore

[Velara-gilneas (Velara)]

@Nagual-smolderweb

The problem with your other argument is that you acknowledge that it is impossible to have the same experience but you disagree with that statement saying you are having more fun now, I am too having more fun, that doesn’t mean that is the “vanilla” experience of the past, is a new experience, we are having fun but it is not the same.

It doesn’t have to be “the same” and obviously can never be. Neither of us is a noob anymore so the “newness” can’t be relived. Objectively, the material hasn’t changed, only our perspective.

[Nagual-smolderweb]

I’m not a troll, the people that get offended easily also counter attack any criticizm accusing the person of said criticism as bieng a troll, you keep acting like one of those people you claim you aren’t.

[Ironbound-azjolnerub (Ironbound)]

Yeah I would just worry less about what streamers say/do and try to enjoy what you yourself are doing.

[Nagual-smolderweb]

And that is why i said it is not the same. You can have fun like i am, i love classic, but i realize it is not the same and that shadow will be there forever.

[Aegithor-kromcrush]

Person: people have grown up a lot since classic.

Me: not all the way they still make the same jokes

You: Reeeeeeeeeee! Political agenda

[Nagual-smolderweb]

It was the way you wrote your post, you make it sound like it was a passive agressive attack, it still sounds to me like that, so you got what you deserved dude, stop complaining, next time try to not sound like you are passively agressively attacking people for what they say on a chat in a video game.

[Shlamorel-herod]

Yes a streamer will influence thousands of opinions. Including yours.

My point still stands- you made a quote by a streamer that is not news. Meme specs have always been excluded from vanilla wow progression runs. Why does someone saying it on a stream suddenly make you interested?

[Velara-gilneas (Velara)]

My point is, IT is the same. You are not the same. And that is all the difference.

[Aegithor-kromcrush]

You’re a decent troll… gotta give that to you

[Nagual-smolderweb]

Your point not stands it has been proven even by your own words,

Your point was:

@Shlamorel-herod

Why do people care what a streamer said?

Then i said:

@Nagual-smolderweb

This is a falacy, there is good reason to care, they speak to thousands of people, to hundreds of thousands even, they will shape the opinion of others and that can and will impact a game in the end.

Then you said:

@Shlamorel-herod

Yes a streamer will influence thousands of opinions. Including yours.

@Shlamorel-herod

My point still stands

No it doesn’t stand, you yourself realized how they influence people minds and opinions, your point has been debunked, period.

[Claps-herod]

Classic is perfectly fine. It’s not for everyone, and is probably not found at level 28. For everyone looking at the forums, you will notice 95% of posts are negative. If you want the real player outlook - look at the reddit page.

[Nagual-smolderweb]

The more you keep calling me a troll the more you keep convincing me that you are one of those people.

[Jaxinthebox-bloodsail-buccaneers]

@Nagual-smolderweb

It’s all in the past, we will nothave that anymore and people will realize that and leave the game at one point or the other.

I’m enjoying the game and I like the gameplay more than in retail (I haven’t played since legion, and before that only played a bit of MoP , where I played the most was during WoTLK) but still feel like some quality of life changesin retail are way better.

The more I play I realize that people changed, everyone changed and now everyone is metagaming, eveyron picked the “best” classes, the “best” specs, everyone is looking for the “best” in their raids etc. Streamers incentivice this behavior even more, I remember yesterday Asmongold saying that if you played a “meme spec” you should not expect to be treated the same as someone playing an optimal spec, that is just some heavy hypocrisy on his part, he was promoting classic like crazy saying how good vanilla was compared to retail only to bring this dumpster attitude towards the community…

We will just see the same classes in the “end game”, everyone that said “In retail everyone is the same” came here to this game TO PLAY THE SAME OPTIMAL SPEC AS OTHERS… you don’t realize how stupid that is? if you don’t, don’t worry you will.

So the real vanilla experience is gone forever to be lost and never to come back, no one will be the same, nothing will be the same, it is like trying to recreate your old girlfriend/boyfriend on a new person, it is just stupid, you can’t repeat that, that is gone.

So what now? well the only thing that occurs to me is that they actually make Wow Classic+ and change a few things to the game like not too much, mostly making a bit better other classes like Paladins being able to TANK or druids also making able the to TANK or DPS as ferals… minimal stuff that doesn’t destroy the balance of the game that just adds more possibilities to the game and makes people pick more classes than just the “best”.

Retail WoW needs to:

• Get rid of specializations, we want to use ALL of our spells.
• Bring back Talent trees
• Keep the new “Talent” or “Perks” tree that it already has because it is also fun
• Squish the hell outa the stats and everything again
• Make so you can go and visit the old content as a high level player and gain something out of playing with low level players, some incentive to populate all the world areas.
• Stop increasing level cap and the “progressive” vision that everything needs to go further because that just brought a lot of problems.
• All pvp needs to be the same in BG/Arenas or WPvP, we don’t need different stats in every mode, Classic pvp is better because there is no standarization of stats in BG and you are exaclty the same in WPvP as in BG.
• Get rid of “Mythic plus” and all RNG like diablo style loot.

Evrything else should stay the same, even LFG etc. people this days is different, things changed, people don’t have the same time to form HUGE raids and all that and some people are not even hard core raiders etc and just want to experience the content, that is fine, having alternatives is fine, not everyone should be forced to Raid etc to get good equipment, that is one of the great things about retail, you can just play pvp if you want and get geared, you don’t need to Raid at all or you can just LFR to experience the story of the game.

I know many people will disagree with this but I don’t really care, I’m not asking to change Classic, I’m just sayig that something needs to change in the development of WoW in general either if they do Classic+ or they focus on Retail, what is clear are two things:

• The vanilla experience is gone, it will never be the same and never come back
• Things need to change, the success of Classic proves that something needs to change in the vision of WoW.

That is because this is Classic… not Vanilla…

[Aegithor-kromcrush]

Aite amigo. I gotta stop feeding you now

[Nagual-smolderweb]

Your post is full of falacies, I never said that classic wasn’t fine, I said that the experience wasn’t the same because of meta gaming. Now 95% of the post being negative on the forums is just a made up number, then you bring up reddit a cespool of fanboys and liberal,progressive, cultural marxist, snowflakes that will ban and censor any criticism of anything posted on that garbage site.

Also you are also helping my case with the :

@Claps-herod

is probably not found at level 28

First of all you are pulling another falacy saying that my opinion as a lvl 28 doesn’t matter, you are lvl 44 that is not even 60 or close to it.

Secondly you are feeding the meta gaming attitude with that comment making so that only high level characters opinion matter and all the content below 60 is meanigless.

[Shaien-windseeker]

@Nagual-smolderweb

It’s all in the past, we will nothave that anymore and people will realize that and leave the game at one point or the other.

I’m enjoying the game and I like the gameplay more than in retail (I haven’t played since legion, and before that only played a bit of MoP , where I played the most was during WoTLK) but still feel like some quality of life changesin retail are way better.

The more I play I realize that people changed, everyone changed and now everyone is metagaming, eveyron picked the “best” classes, the “best” specs, everyone is looking for the “best” in their raids etc

1. Blizzard releases games, not experiences;
2. If you enjoy the gameplay, you can have a new experience with an old game; and
3. If people only accept the best classes, best specs, and best whatevers in their raid/dungeon/taco party, it means that people haven’t changed a bit. That’s been happening since before computers. Find different people. Be the one who insists on not the best.

[Saxualhealin-benediction]

People were metagaming and optimizing builds long before WotLK. Expecting to take a memespec into a raid was just as fruitless back then as it is today. You only got to go to raid as memespec if the raid was either already on farm or as pug raids.

Your vision of the past is clouded by nostalgia. WoW was always a metagame nolyfe cesspool of elitist neckbeards.

[Frostchi-grobbulus]

Honestly, I disagree OP.

This has felt (For the most part) authentically vanilla.

Yes, there is a lot more “meta gaming”, but I still see people running meme specs and I’d say most people are OK with it.

[Graff-nathrezim]

@Nagual-smolderweb

Hiding in an echo chamber

An echo chamber is one where people are saying back to you the same things you are saying. Not watching a streamer is nothing like “hiding in an echo chamber”, they are two different concepts.

You can still seek out different ideas and opinions but realize that streamers are there to create controversy and get people to pay attention to them. Not a great source for honest and quality information.

[Gran-old-blanchy]

The game is ok but you can never bring back the old. Retail and their customers are not the same while casuals are basically as they were back at release. These two groups can not mix. Retail folks may corrupt a few to their beliefs! but for the most part casuals would rather enjoy things and not rush. Nor hear your old war stories over and over again!!! gawd