Incoming damage is out of control. At even vault level keys, the success or failure of the group is determined basically by how good or bad the healer is. All mistakes trickle down to one person: low dps, missed interrupts, improper tank mitigation, failure to stop important casts that cannot be interrupted, lack of utility use, and this is only a short list of things that all trickle down to one person, with very limited feedback to the other roles that they are underperforming. this simply is not fair, and single handedly accounts for why pug healing player count is lower than ever.
i am a die hard healer, healing at relatively high levels on every healing class with exception to the evoker, and i am very close to completely resigning from the role. I appreciate a challenge. this isnt even about making healing easier. this is about spreading the challenge, or adding some kind of personal responsibility or feedback for the other roles.
i am not a developer, but i do have some solutions you wont try, if you do even read these. make roles very defined. for instance, pick a role and make them also the disruptor. it makes the most sense to make this the tank. give the tank the tools to be the one that disrupts mobs. basically what we saw in s3 of dragonflight with vdh, but give all tanks this ability, and dramatically lessen the amount of interrupts and stops needed to where it is designed to be stopped by one very diligent tank. all interrupts and stops would be removed from non tank specs.
for healers, i would make them also a support role. give them tools to buff allies similar to how augmentation does or really just disc priest does. spread these tools out and give them class-specific ways to accomplish this, but homogenize their effect. again, no more stops or interrupts from any non tank role
make dps just dps. thats all they want to do anyway. remove their defensives, remove thier stops, etc. make them the tunnelers they want to be. if they want a change, theyll play the other roles, etc.
no, so the whole issue of tanks having to worry about survivability would go away. healiing would be chilled out a little as well, to where its not constant spam healing. but the pressure on gcd would be replaced with disruption and support abilities.
at the end of the day, this is just an idea. another idea i had was to make all damage that was survivable, unavoidable. so basically all avoidable dmg would kill someone whether they pressed a defensive or not. i would also completely prune defensives in this case from all dps specs. that way their survivablity isnt their responsibility, other than clearly failing to avoid avoidable dmg
edit: but i do want dps requirements to go up considerably
I think this is the last thing that needs to happen, DPS give tanks and healers hell as it is already, this would just make it so that DPS would have zero reason to treat tanks and healers with any measure of respect. No, what needs to happen is if the DPS fails on the interupt, or other disruption, they get snacked hard or lose DPS.
The thing that most don’t get about M+, and to an extent, lesser dungeons is it is a team effort, not saying raids are not but the less people you have, the more individual responsibility is required.
This. Odd that so many have already proposed that a missed kick makes DD lose DPS or out right kills them in higher keys, yet it has fallen on blizz deaf ears for over a year.
Most likely whoever’s in charge of M+ balance and class balance is a DPS main that sucks.
I agree. What they need to do is remove interrupts from healers entirely and make it only dps/tanks… Defensives are a problem right now because now the devs build encounters around them. They need to reduce them and then normalize damage.
All thats been said so many times tho, I just dont see it changing until management is changed.
I agree, but how do you determine what DPS gets punished? Once that’s figured out, they would have to add some sort of enrage mechanics to mobs. Something to where when enough DPS is lost due to the dampening, the mobs just wipe the group. Because if it just drags things on, it’s no better than what we already have, because that just trickles down to the healer anyway. The game just gives absolutely no feedback to any role but the healer.
I had a prot paladin start the first pull in necrotic wake the other day. I kid you not, before he even had the pull remotely gathered, he died in a global. When he got up, he asked me where the heal was lol. Mind you how much HP a tank has. There is exactly two abilities that could save him from that, and he has both of them. I was on my monk, cocoon wouldn’t even have saved him
personally, i would like to see defensives for each dps class/spec increased to the point where the dps players are entirely self-sufficient for their own survival…
then healers will no longer be needed and the group comp will be:
M+ success has shifted too much towards survivability. It should be more about doing enough damage to time the key. Enemy HP should be increased without increasing enemy damage. Although Blizz just did the opposite of this so seems like they’re happy with the current design.
I play MW and I’m currently 3165io, so not ‘leet’ levels or anything but 14s/15s. Having dps forced to do more than just damage and work WITH the group I think is a good thing. They have to CC, they have to interrupt, they have to play around mechanics. This isn’t bad, it’s good for the game IMO. If everything is just a giant dps check it becomes boring real quick.
That said It could certainly use some tuning.
The unavoidable damage scales out of control at higher levels, and everything starts to become gimmicks and exploits rather than playing the content (LOSing key mechanics, abusing mind control, etc…).
The timers need adjusting. DB, SoB, and CoE are so relaxed while SV and GB are way too short. There’s overlaps that basically required DBM, many audio/graphical queues are out of sync, lots of bugs, and server performance is absolutely abysmal. The harder content is also exposing a MASSIVE discrepancy between the capabilities of the classes.
But the general design philosophy of M+ I think is in a good state. You have to work as a team, use all your abilities, the success of the team isn’t on one person, and pulling big/fast/borderline reckless is fun.
The higher end content is brutal… and it should be. 99.999999% of the content in WoW is ‘drool on the keyboard’ easy. Lets at least have 0.00000001% be there for the ‘leets’ to test their skills on. I’ll never time a 20 but I timed 2x15s last night and it was a rush.
Last time I pushed score it was 25s. Could have definitely cleared 1 or 2 higher, especially on fort. I have no idea how high I could heal now, and unfortunately, it really wouldn’t even be up to me. It would be up how well the DPS and tanks managed their defensives.
Absolutely.
It’s a good thing if they can figure out a way for everything they do incorrectly not to filter down to one person. The healer is literally propelled or held back completely by the skill of the rest of the group. Obviously sometimes there’s that sweet spot when everyone is needing to perform well, and does, and it’s a great experience, but it’s extremely rare
