You underestimate their power to be dumb.
The Eredar are in the Alliance because Draenei are just renamed Eredar. Draenei are just Eredar who flew away and changed their name.
Also, there are Manari Eredar as a customization = Red Draenei.
So Eredar are Alliance, that much is certain.
You underestimate their power to be dumb.
True, but I’ve actually liked a lot of DF so I’m gonna give them the benefit of the odubt.
Also, there are Manari Eredar as a customization = Red Draenei.
Customization = / = lore. Sand Trolls are a skin option for the Darkspear, but there are no Sand Trolls in the Horde. All Arzaal and Velen were discussing was the potential for the Man’ari earning forgiveness and redemption, which Arzaal deemed impossible. That’s it.
Beat me to it. I was just going say that technically speaking, they are alliance, simply because we got a small questline about letting a small number of them back to try and repent
Yeah, the comparison to “Sand Trolls” is just flat out wrong :
There was no Horde equivalent quest with lore and canon that backed up the “sand troll” customization. At least not yet - maybe with the Darkspear stuff that is coming soon. But not as of now.
There was an actual quest line that gives lore to Eredar being Alliance, any way you slice it.
I was just going say that technically speaking, they are alliance, simply because we got a small questline about letting a small number of them back to try and repent
They aren’t though? We have no indication that they’re Alliance members, there’s like what, -one- Eredar in the Exodar slumming it with the Broken? They’re not Alliance members, they’re working with the Draenei.
I do not believe you are remembering that quest correctly. The actual conversation unequivically has a group of man’ari eredar join the Alliance.
Arzal’kal says: But if this twisted soul can still do any good, I will see it done.
Prophet Velen says: Others have proven stronger than their darkness. The orcs, death knights, and Illidari. Perhaps there is a path forward.
Prophet Velen says: There is much I would like to discuss with you, Arzal’kal, and others who believe as you do.
Arzal’kal says: Please, just… Arzaal. If I may return, I would have it be with the name I had when I left.
Prophet Velen says: Very well. Come, Arzaal.
Velen makes it clear that the man’ari are welcomed, though nobody’s expecting forgiveness. Just a shot at doing good.
They very much are though, as per the questline that you know…blizz went out of their way to make cannon.
I don’t know how anyone who did that quest came away with These guys aren’t alliance.
Yeah, the comparison to “Sand Trolls” is just flat out wrong
There was no Horde equivalent quest with lore and canon that backed up the “sand troll” customization. At least not yet - maybe with the Darkspear stuff that is coming soon. But not as of now.
There was an actual quest line that gives lore to Eredar being Alliance, any way you slice it.
No it isn’t. The questline gave lore to the Eredar working with the Draenei, not joining the Alliance.
Again.
Arzal’kal says: Please, just… Arzaal. If I may return, I would have it be with the name I had when I left.
Prophet Velen says: Very well. Come, Arzaal.
They’re not just working with the drainos. They’re returning to their people. It isn’t ambiguous. If they are back with the drainos and the drainos are Alliance, then the man’ari who are part of the draino people again are therefore also part of the Alliance.
The quest is proof this is fact. Do you have anything to prove the quest is wrong?
I don’t know how anyone who did that quest came away with These guys aren’t alliance .
I would believe they were Alliance if anyone but players with the customization were in Stormwind. We don’t see anyone outside of the Exodar, no reaction from the rest of the Alliance, nothing.
It’s a quest about a small sect of man’ari rejoining their kin, and therefore the alliance and are in the process of repenting.
It’s just a really weird hill you’re choosing to die on here and we’re both usually on the same page about things when it comes to the lore
Alysna said it better than I did, but it doesn’t change the fact that a extremely small number of them did infact rejoin the alliance
Hmm.
I do not recall ever seeing any high elves in Stormwind other than players, though I might have missed some.
But there are no darkfallen night elves in Stormwind, even though Tyrande welcomed them back into night elven society.
Are they not Alliance now? Do they need to be in Stormwind to count as Alliance, or can quest texts and existence in other cities qualify?
Nevermind the fact that the Draenei heritage quest is coming, which I’m positive it will at touch on the subject briefly and besides, quest text is the easiest thing to add down the line.
A simple solution would of been to of had a group of Alleria’s Quel’dorei troops survive the sundering by running through one of the many portals Ner’zhul opened, only to find themselves stuck in Telogrus. Marooned there amid constant void whispers, they build up a base of operations and are finally found by Alleria when they are nearly all mad and helped back from the brink.
I just came up with that in about 20 minutes.
There are high elves in Stormwind. Busy with Christmas so cant find them. End message.
I’d read what Eric says again.
We had the 5.3 Kor’kron Campaign, which was us fighting Orcs. Then we had Siege of Orgrimmar, which was… again… us fighting Orcs, and that raid tier was all the content we had for MoP for over a year (5.4.0 dropped on the 10th of September, 2013. Warlords of Draenor didn’t launch until the 13th of November, 2014). Then we jumped straight into an Orc killing expansion, where the main enemy we were fighting, regardless of faction, were more Orcs.
And while yes, we did get Highmaul as a raid, which allowed us to fight a big bad that wasn’t an Orc, the very next raid tier had us fighting… oh, look, more Orcs!
So yeah, there were a lot of people who were tired of fighting Orcs. Blizzard recognized this, which is why Gorgrond got changed up from the original vision (which was going to be Blackrock Orc focused, with the Grimrail Line featuring heavily), why the Shattrath Raid got scrapped, which would have been us fighting Orcs, again! And why the Legion popped up and we got to fight demons mixed with Orcs.
For Trolls it’s even simpler:
They could have, very easily, went down the route of ‘more troll slaughter’ but again, they realized that for multiple expansions we’ve already done that and it was getting tiring. Almost every WoW expansion has had us killing Trolls, so they decided not to dive too deep into that.
This is what’s called a fair compromise. The Alliance canonically get a high-elven playable race from a lore perspective, while also not just being normal high elves and therefore straight up stealing a Horde race. The Void Elves being Blood Elf defectors was always just… weird. Because oh boy, I’m sure the Alliance is thrilled to play as a faction entirely of traitors who’s unethical and unsafe scientific practices almost destroyed their civilization, woohoo! A faction of people who should have their credentials as researchers revoked.
The problem is blonde haired and light skinned elves on the Alliance. Blood Elves were introduced only to for the intrigue of the “ugly” faction getting the Tolkien elves. You don’t get to steal that from the Horde, else you may as well just delete Blood Elves from the game. Make the Void Elves Silver Covenant… and then turn them purple. That’s a better compromise than what happened.
Just like giving the Nightborne isn’t taking anything from the Alliance players? A race that were part of the Highborne, a group the Night Elves had already thrown out of their society?
The the silver convenant were in the Alliance is meaningless. It did nothing to game play. The point is the selection of races the players have.
Personally, I’d have had Liadrin argue to save the Nightwell rather than concur with Tyrande’s counsel to let it die, and Thalyssra to have begun her reign by giving in to that very Highborne temptation. That would’ve more poignantly established the cultural affinity Thalyssra predicated her allegiance to the Horde on rather than just sneering at how lazy and useless the night elves are months after the fact.
I read what Eric said. I simply reject the line of logic he uses - it’s fatigue when we slaughter orcs for an expansion and a half to the point at which they don’t get a finished plotline, but Night Elves get four expansions before they go back in the box.
I do not buy that it was just a matter of killing the same thing.