#nochanges
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Honestly If you could get Kevin Jordan to say they should add duel spec on his stream I would personally write a feedback in game asking for it to be implemented.
I trust that man with my life tbh… I mean I’ve practically given him 2 years of it
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I don’t think he specifically mentioned anything when he said what I quoted (possibly paraphrased). I’ll try to find the video when I feel up for the search.
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See, this is where you are wrong. These “Massive Changes” weren’t single entities. They were ideas spawned from a series of “One Small Change” decisions and Blizzard decided to jump in front of the community knowing they would demand it next. The most well known of these being either the new talent system, which I will get into in just a moment, LFD to LFR spiral, or how gear resets every tier now. Know how we got to gear resetting every single tier? Players felt it wasn’t fair they didn’t get raid quality items for not raiding, in TBC Blizzard for patch 2.4 made a vendor that sold tier 5 quality items for badges of justice to appease them. Nothing too drastic. In patch 3.3 Blizzard did sort of the same thing when they removed all other badges except for Triumph and Frost. When they did this, every dungeon boss dropped Emblem of Triumph. Why is this important? Because Triumphs enabled you to buy full tier 9 and offpieces so a freshly leveled character given a week of using the then new LFD system was decked out in gear and ready to venture into ICC. After this point, and most notably in 4.3 introducing the LFR the game permanently became a matter of no matter when you quit in an expansion, hit cap and get the very minimal ilvl required you could do LFR for gear and work into actually raiding in the latest tier despite not having seen the rest. Since then the game has decided to just reset everyone’s gear every content patch except Mythic raiders. LFR of a new tier in Legion and BFA at the bare minimum dropped ilvl equal to that of heroic raiding the previous tier.
One small change yeah?
The Cata talent scheme was fine, it was similar to what we had just with trimmed down trees back to 31 points (albeit a point every 2 levels) and the inclusion of when you specced something you got a few abilities. The real problem was when it came to MoP and they made talents what we have today where specializing wasn’t important because you just changed your spec and talents on the fly in the middle of the raid. Dual Spec had this to a lesser extent in Ulduar where a lot of PvE solely mages carried a Frostfire Bolt spec for Hodir specifically because that fight drastically favored Frostfire Bolt spec, and fire to a lesser degree. If you raided as Arcane, you didn’t suffer the consequences of not having an optimal spec for that fight, you just swapped your spec in the raid. In ICC my mage was constantly dancing between Arcane and Fire while my rogue was constantly dancing (no pun intended) between Subtlety and Combat depending on what would be more suited to the fight. If the fight had adds or allowed for a lot of uptime, I went combat. If the fight had adds that needed to be burst down quickly or have burst done at specific times (Lich King Heroic Valkyrs for example) I went subtlety. No matter what I was always the best spec for every fight.
The glaring flaws of this become more evident as you get later into the game when they start making more specs PvE viable because certain specs are just better for certain fights. In TBC my rogue is combat in a raid, no questions. In Wrath it will be somewhat of an issue as it was back then. Especially when you look at say, Feral Druid where if the fight isn’t favorable to melee, suddenly you have a boomkin out of nowhere because melee isn’t optimal. Or your enhancement shaman just became elemental for a single fight because that makes a whole lot of sense that they just became a master of the elements despite never using them ever prior.
This came as the result of two things. Needing something drastic for the expansion and to justify the inclusion of flying mounts in Azeroth (something the community had been begging for since they announced flying mounts for TBC) and to streamline the questing by performing what amounted to a hard reset of the game’s quests to make it easier to level. Yet another thing the community was begging for since the onset of the game really.
You need more clarity on this point because this could be a number of things. Titanforging you mean? Yeah no, that was the result of player demand when they liked the idea in 5.2 and started demanding Blizzard make all gear like that so that way the guy with 40 kids and 21 seconds a week to play the game could feel like he was getting really good items too without having to commit to raiding for them because of his IRL obligations. Which kind of goes back to my mantra for games in general: “If you do not have free time, don’t play an MMO. If you are bad at micromanaging and multitasking, do not play an RTS. If you have Parkinson’s and can’t hold a mouse effectively enough to aim at heads or an abnormally slow reaction time, don’t bother with an FPS. If you can’t handle social interaction, don’t play an online game.” Basic things.
No, it exactly is those changes that caused retail. Look at TBC, then look at Retail. The games couldn’t be further apart despite once being the same exact thing. What changed? Well, the game did, because the game changed. Why did the game change? Because players demanded small QOL things repeatedly, it was obvious what they would ask for next and Blizzard decided to get in front of them and implement it before they asked, but you knew they were going to.
Let’s take LFD. A small change made so that way people on backwater servers could do dungeons because nobody played on their realm. Makes sense. Logically to anybody with a brain you knew they were going to ask for queued raiding because well, it worked with dungeons so why not raids too? Something Blizzard told us was “not going to happen.” Only took them one expansion to make that leap.
How about talents like Dual Spec? Oh well players don’t like being punished for their decisions and not being always optimal for the fight or content they are doing. Nobody wants to respec out of Shadow just to heal a dungeon run but they can’t bring themselves to just decline the offer. Now you have on the fly switching at a moment’s notice with no choice really mattering because it can be changed with a simple press of the N key and a couple clicks. If you somehow don’t see these as correlated, I ask you to use the intelligence I know you have and critically think, what about these is similar. The principle underlying why these things exist. Players not being punished or suboptimal because of a choice they made. See how they’re related now?
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“for the health of the game” is subjective and could be easily said for guess what? dual spec 
The fact that the Wow is the most successful MMO ever doesn’t mean there weren’t bad designs decisions. One thing doesn’t exclude the other.
Wow Vanilla and TBC had SEVERE bad designed things that just provides a BAD UX.
Things can be always improved, and UX / QoL changes that solves annoyances and waste of time to actually allow the players to have more options / choices to enjoy the game are GOOD CHANGES.
Blizzard evolved during the years and fixed many things, the 2007 team didn’t had all the answers and made some horrible design choices that were only proper fixed in WotLK.
We should be wanting TBC++ not TBC Classic to be honest, there are so many simple changes that could provide a much better TBC experience… and Dual Spec is one of them.
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The lack of dual-spec still creates negative scenarios even for people like me in the situation you illustrated. Instead of crying to blizz about it on the forums we actively try to find solutions to this problem. Pro-activity vs inactivity. We go out and find new people & friends to play with, that is what the MMO genre is all about and what made MMO’s famous. I don’t kill raid bosses for random pixels in a meaningless world. I do it to meet new people and make friends.
It is you who is playing the game incorrectly.
We do grasp it and we don’t want it because
- retail exists, go play that, it has the QoL you’re looking for. There is absolutely nothing preventing you from doing TBC content in Shadowlands. They have about the same difficulty either way.
Just like LFR/LFD/DF saved retail in the same scenario. Making friendships is what “Saves” the game. Creating a need for players to socially engage with one another to accomplish a mutal goal.
Isn’t true now and wasn’t true in 2008, add people you’ve played with to your friendslist and message them over a long period of time and develop a friendship and a bond and you can ask them to tank your dungeon for you and they probably will. Finding random people at a random time of the day out of a text chat is hard, developing friendships is easier.
{X} to doubt, the active server population on gul’dan during tbc was maybe 2,000 players or less with 600-800 of those being alliance., compare that to any active TBC server now. We still had several guilds full clear BT, and one guild full clear Sunwell.
So we agree boosts should be removed and the boosted characters deleted.
Impossible to quantify or justify in any meaningful way, you have no way to know what you gain or lose in this scenario. The only thing we can do is ask if anything like this has happened in the past and what was the outcome. It did happen and the outcome for many was a soul-less and meaningless lootfest that made them beg for the old way of doing things.
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The topic is about duel spec and only duel spec. Stop adding additional changes yo justify your view.
Duel spec was one of the changes that the majority of players welcomed. Not making a change that improves the game just for the sake of not making a change is lame. Stick to the topic. You can discuss other changes when ppl ask for those. But this discussion is only about duel spec.
On of the easiest ways to TELL A LIE in English is to omit the words “some” and “all” and “any”. For example:
Some of the players want Dual Spec. TRUE.
All of the players want Dual Spec. FALSE.
Blizzard promised to make ANY change that SOME players wanted. LIE.
Blizzard promised to make SOME changes that SOME players wanted. TRUE.
(Blizzard knows there is no such thing as “ALL player want”)
This is what ALL people want. LIE.
This is what SOME people want. TRUE.
How about some things you did not mention:
Blizzard told ALL players that TBCC would be a copy of the OLD rules. TRUE.
Many players want the OLD rules, not some “improved” version. TRUE.
To be fair:
Blizzard DID NOT rule out possible changes like dual spec. TRUE.
Cringe. Stop with the “No Changes!!!” BS. Every 70 I’ve talked to (thousands at this point) want Dual Spec. Stop with the no changes. Make these expacs better, we learned from the past, that’s why we had it in WotLK. Make these good expansions better.
Here you go buddy:
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Thank you, was trying to find the video myself
Also don’t try to reason with this guy, I think he’s never hit max level on classic/tbc and has like 70 posts talking trash about Blizzard and the vast amount of players.
With the retail talents. The most common complaint I’ve seen about Cata is people didn’t like the talent changes. I’ve never seen anyone say they quit in Wrath because dual spec was added.
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Please do not wait until the last patch to add DS like you did with the chrono boon, people who are against it are not real people. haven’t met a single person that is against dual spec.
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tldr:
You are a big troll. Gotcha. You just don’t like everything and you just want to be stuck in the past. Gotcha.
And if someone disagrees with you, your flow chart just automatically triggers and shouts “GO BACK TO RETAIL” gotcha.
You haven’t said a single reasonable tldr thing that seems like reasonable talk besides the boost thing.
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TLDR everyone who disagrees with me is a troll because I don’t have the emotional intelligence to believe someone can have a different opinion than me.
You havent said a single reasonable thing in favor of the boost other than I’m lazy give me stuff.
Since blizzard didn’t add dual specialization to vanilla classic I don’t see why they would add it to tbcc.
I would prefer the game remain unchanged in regard to this issue considering the ability to change talents exists in game. I have no issue with updating the talent system to save templates in order to save time, but I believe the cost should remain intact, 50g if capped, each time you respec.
Will be adding two more poll results to the OP when they finish. 5 hours for one, and 1 day and 9 hours for the other.
for people who buy gold, respeccing isnt an issue…but for me, who doesn’t do that, it’s really expensive to go from pve heals to a build that can actually farm: doing it as resto is really really slow. i had to boost a dps characer + i am leveling it now just to farm gold/mats. while dps can just farm with no need to switch specs, tanks and healers do not have that luxury: 50 gold per swap adds up super fast. when dual spec was added, it was the best change in wow ever.