… why do I feel that they’d only see that as a challenge?
Blizz Writer Dunning: Pfft, they think that’s a bad idea?
Blizz Writer Kruger: Let’s do it, it sounds easy!
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Why is WoW one of the ONLY fantasy setting where this should be a concern?
Warhammer, D&D, Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones,…
All of them have no issue whatsoever to add physical differences as another factor to distinguish their human groups.
And several of those are considered the epitome of fantasy narrative.
You said it yourself, Elder Scrolls manages this too.
So that sort of proves the point. The issue isn’t having this angle, for as long as you have competent writers involved.
So again I say: meeting people that take this as an excuse to be a racist piece of garbage, points at a problem with PEOPLE. Not with the story.
In my opinion, you can’t hold the story hostage of the fact that you may hang out with racist players.
I’m sorry, but it does not work great.
Dwarves didn’t need it to explain the physical differences between clans.
Orcs didn’t need it to explain the distinct features of their different people.
There are no Vrykul with black or Asian features that could’ve explained how humans carried on said traits.
Even without the above, on a narrative level its pretty lazy.
And all for what? Because some racist may misuse the alternative?
It’s insane that we’ve reached the point where we applaud tokenism as a viable form of storytelling.
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I’ve already explained this to you.
From the onset, uses POC cultures for other kingdoms
From the onset, uses POC cultures for other kingdoms as well as Monster Races
Bad example; all the Non-White Kingdoms were Evil Servants Of Sauron/Morgoth
There are no monster races, just humans, ergo POC used for other kingdoms
What’s not clicking?
WoW from the onset strictly used POC = Monster Race
That was the point. It’s an allegory that required the story to subvert tropes.
Oh lemme make a thread on twitter soon and @ the dev who volunteered to ferry such concerns, I’ll get that fixed for you by the end of the year.
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And why would that limit the treatment of the human collectives?
As I told you too, if you want to avoid creating duplicates, there are a TON of cultures that haven’t been used for the Monster races.
Also, and most importantly, I don’t see why should any of these features would need to be related to the RL culture we’d commonly associate them with.
Having Asian features does not need to translate into fighting the Pandaren over who gets to use what theme.
And there is an infinite amount of iterations to be had for humans with distinct looks, based on European myths and folklore alone.
PS:
True.
I’m not really fond of that angle, although I’m not particularly judgemental as it’s in line with the outdated mindset of his time.
Still, there are far more recent iterations that use Tolkiens setting to create stories, that handle it pretty good.
There was a recent video game featuring a Gondor captain that came from Harad, that worked alongside the protagonist.
Said work even managed to paint orcs in a less evil light.
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Wow was based off warhammer, nothing else it was originally going to be part of the IP until blizzard took it elsewhere. The Races are based off that setting which is based off other fantasy settings. It has never been based on what you’re putting out there.
Secondly why is it orcs who are now a Titan race also allowed to have distinct races for different clans when they all have the same linage as well? Why is it only humans who can’t have that distinction?
I mean as of warcraft 3 all orcs looked the same it wasn’t until WOD did orcs racial differences get boiled down to what clan they came from.
No you’ll get Black/Brown/Asian Vrykul and you’ll like it <3
say, did anyone else ever feel that the ‘modern humans are the feeble decedents of a once great/pure race of giant Vikings’ origin is exactly like something out of a deranged neo-n### conspiracy theory?
oh that’s because it is lol
like actually IRL a real thing that was actually believed
But WoW also subverts that conspiracy theory by having Black/Brown/Asian humans descend from that common origin 
Which SOME PEOPLE want to undo
Honestly, if the Vrykul were added as a playable race that would be nice.
Wouldn’t be my preferred route, as it would dilute even further the already bastardised approximation to the ingame presentation of the Norse myth and fantasy. Which on itself, feels like a disservice to those that would want to enjoy the story it offers.
In my opinion, it would also reinforce the idea that lazy writing and tokenism is fine.
But….at least it would dispel some of the contradictions and support better this sort of explanation for human distinct groups.
PS: If you are going to do such, I ask you, to not quote and defame me on Twitter to start some smear campaign. Specially if you are to outright lie regarding what I’m saying.
Sorry if it seems as if im lurking you and all, I profoundly dislike doing such, but a friend of mine has just warned me again that my name popped up there.
Let’s keep it civil, please.
Otherwise, I’ll start asking mods to intervene.
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what we want is some variation in the different which cultures that make up humans which is apparently Taboo according to you as only the Horde get any kind of cultural variation amongst its races.
I honestly have hated the Vyrkul progenitors story as it has done absolutely nothing to give humans any depth in the game. Its literally be one very small quest and a blurb in chronicles and that is all the history we get.
well, those guys believed in all sorts of weird make-up stuff… them digging for religious artifacts in the Indiana Jones movies is fairly rational comparatively speaking.
and, it’s creatively lazy that all Warcraft humans basically have a near-monoculture in spite of having multiple phenotypes belonging to various human cultures from the RL, but since those cultures HAVE already been given to an assortment of monster races, it does seem like giving them to human group too would be …troublesome. And not just in the ‘wait, so where were they up until NOW?’ aspect.
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There’s an infinite variation of cultural diversity in Europe across regions and history
That you’re too ignorant to be aware of such is not my problem
your Bias is showing buddy,
Yes there is plenty of cultural diversity through europe so lets get some on the Horde and some on the Alliance. This Idea only monster races can represent other cultures I find is kind of a disgusting outlook.
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Goblins are Italian/Jewish
Nightborne are French
Belves are PanMediterranean (S Euro, W Asian, and N African motifs) + French motifs
We already have some
Stay on topic.
The human kingdoms can use different moments and histories and regions of Europe to world building
You’re arguing in bad faith with constantly shifting goal posts
Which I why I’ve had you on ignore since your first post weeks ago
It would also be far to disruptive for the established lore, as there is no way these cultures could’ve interacted to the point of having them share common themes.
That’s the reason why I think that the story should reach a middle ground between what Baalsamael is proposing, and this issue.
I can think of two examples to avoid such:
- Subvert expectations by introducing said features alongside themes that do not relate to what we would associate them with in RL.
- To use cultures that haven’t already been used for the Monster races. i.e:
That would require a lot of work of course, but in the long run, I’d say that they’d present alternatives far more enriching for the overall story.
This is just Quel’Thalas and Zul’Farrak
You will never convince me or most people that insisting Nonwhite Humans be given a separate origin is a gold idea.
It would be a trainwreck and a disaster
Yeah, its not like blizzard haven’t ever fleshed out a race that had absolutely no background before and put them in the game.
I’d say that’s a simplification.
At best, these use some of the same visual aspects.
If you read into the story of Calimshan , you’d see that there is little else in common.
Just because Belves and Farraki share some of the visuals, it doesn’t mean that they own the entirety of the theme.
In fact, the story of Calimshan would resonate far more with that of the Draenei.
But it was just an example, there are a hundred different more.
I just look at other narratives and how they handle their humans.
Unless you are willing to argue that WoW fares better on a narrative level than franchises such as D&D, I’d say that I would rather WoW took notes and imitated them on said aspects too. After all, they already imitate most of the rest.
And yes, I’ve read your reasoning for said distinction and I find it shaky at best, although I admit I’m struggling to understand the point better.
D&D also deals with a combination of monster and humanoid races, Warhammer also has monster races that are inspired by RL cultures (in fact, when Zandalar was announced, I was expecting them to use far more Lizardmen themes instead of going full Wakanda), and so on.
We may have to agree to disagree on certain things.
EDIT: And I’ll note again, that I find it infinitely sad, that for some we’ve reached a point where they rather have tokenism over facing the problem of having racist players in their midst.
EDIT2: You know who else uses a lot of these Calimshan visuals??? Dalaran. One of the human kingdoms……
When they were originally introduced in vanilla wow they were simply just another jungle troll tribe with no variation outside they were more peaceful than other tribes. It was only in BFA did they flesh them out to have a distinct difference in culture and look to other trolls.
This Idea that they cannot go back and change some of the human nations to have a different culture or even a different look to other humans is flawed as blizzard have done it many times before.