Hmm … well I’ll admit I’ve always found Sylvie’s motives rather opaque. With how “EoN” portrayed her, she is a character who can (and will) do and say one thing; but be thinking something completely different. Even her actions within Silverpine (if the whole “Bulwark” thing is your lens to view them in) suggests what she was really doing was just bolstering the strength of her meatshield. I think expectations of her in BfA where really dependent on your image of her.
As for her “motives” in BfA … unfortunately them remaining obscure was the whole point. This conflict (in every way) was SYLVIE’S war, we were all just playing the roles we were given. Her objectives were personal, selfish, and ambitious … but certainly not altruistic (nor did I expect them to be the longer Blizz held off actually giving us insight into them). Just like “Reckoning” was a parallel to the WrathGate; BfA was a parallel to “EoN” (with Sylvanas characteristically using others as tools for her personal goals, then abandoning them the moment they ceased to be worth the bother towards those goals). That was the twist … it was deliberate.
I think I get that’s the point of why it is that way. As we both pointed out, she is almost inherently secretive. I was just saying that in itself is why it was poorly handled.
Another way this storyline could’ve been better, was with Vol’jin still as warcheif and Sylvanas in the “Saurfang” role. Not as a rebellion leader, but as the general leading the battle plans. Hell, I think that would’ve made for a far better expansion than what we got, but hindsight is 20/20 I suppose.
The issue with THAT is that he’d never tolerate her nonsense. The Forsaken under Sylvanas were already sort of stretching the seams of reality in why they were still allowed to be part of the Horde at all by that point; and Vol’jin NEVER trusted Sylvanas. Hell, part of the reason I think he needed to die was so that he wouldn’t have brought the hammer down on her HARD for her stunt in Stormheim (which was shifty as all hell).
There are a number of functional goals that I think Blizz intended to complete with this expansion (even if I think the execution and means of those goals were sloppy at best). Yes, they wanted to progress Sylvie’s natural character arc. Yes, they wanted to set up the next expansion (which likely IS Shadowlands themed … just not in the way ANY of the leaks suggested). However, finally, the point of forcing Sylvie into that Warchief spot was ultimately to not JUST have her do something so atrocious she would cease to be a member of the Horde; but also do it in a way to leave the Forsaken distanced from her, and remaining with the Faction (Calia is a different issue).
In short … Sylvie’s mask needed to crack, and the world needed to see her for what she really is (and the only real way to do that effectively is put her in the spotlight, in a position of authority that lets her do whatever she wants without restraint). No more people looking the other ways at convenient times … and no more Scourge Light remaining in the faction SOLELY because Game Mechanics say so.
I don’t think I would mind not knowing Sylvanas’ true motives if I really wanted/felt it was necessary to fight the Alliance anyway. To me, that was a bigger issue.
That’s pretty fair, I’ve seen this come up from time to time and I agree with it to a certain extent, but for me I think that Sylvanas’ characterization was really the whole reason for the campaign in the first place.
We never had a good reason to go to war and therefore nothing to be invested about.
They promised faction pride and they gave us villain bat beatdown where the Horde looked like a bunch of puppy killing a holes.
They butchered Sylvanas, Baine and Saurfang’s character completely. Sylvanas acts like an impulsive angsty teen, Baine has no spine and doesn’t even protest when Sylvanas literaly steps on everything his people is about and Saurfang spends half the campaign moping.
I’ve seen kids playing War with more knowledge of war and tactics than these writters.
They try to compensate the Horde not having demigods on their ranks by giving certain characters plot armor and impossible solutions.
Nathanos. ENOUGH of him! No one likes this guy cause he acts like an overcompensating moron who wants to put your character who did WAY MORE in one expansion than he did his entire life down so he can feel manly in front of his dead waifu.
it wasn’t fulfilling because first, the reasons for war was stupid.
“they may attack in 50 years”
while having one of the most peacefuls guys in existence as enemy.
Second, How did they do it? ignoring vindicar? wild gods?
inter continental catas?
Tyrande being a 10k yeard old commander who defeated the legion 3 times being outsmarted somehow?
third, things ignored. Derek being ashes,random plot points like the san’lyn joining the horde but you would never know if you only play horde.
Or the ashvane/azshara deal.
The tidestone,the azshara trap.
How did sylvanas knew about the dagger and why she was so sure about it?
The issue with this is that in BtS she wanted to raise everyone in Stormwind, not feed their souls to death or whatever. So that motivation really makes no sense in the context they’ve given now.
I think the simple fact that we didn’t get a WAR campaign was the biggest negative for me. After such a big opener (Teldrassil/Lordaeron) we did nothing but fish up a miraculously intact corpse to raise as a weapon, which turned out to be a fizzer, while at the same time igniting a civil war which seems in the scale of things the least objectionable.
As a weird tangent (and I may be in the minority) … but I am sort of liking the Racial and Leadership composition of the Horde at the very least.
Thrall is back (shedding the Green Jesus nonsense). Rexxar seems to have finally committed fully to the faction. Voss, Gazlowe, and Rokhan have taken up leadership roles with their respective races. Even the ARs we’ve gotten are all great cultural additions to the Faction (even if most of their Reps are pretty lacking in development atm). Honestly, as long as Calia ends up NOT being on the Red Team (and she invalidates herself as leader of the FORSAKEN in some way) … fairly OK on the Horde composition at the end of this mess (even if a LOT of these reps need development).
Valentine, not Derek. They literally just run into Derek by chance, Valentine was the one the campaign was actually about getting, then he just gets killed without even having any lines and nobody cares.
Probably just filler. I mean honestly the entire WC just felt like useless filler outside maybe 2-3 quests. They needed to have the Horde players doing something until it was finally time to rebel 2.5 patches later.