I think the issue they’re getting at isn’t raid loot needing to be incentives to do raid so much as the fact that m+ is repeatable with no actual finite cap on how many times you can do it in a week beyond having access to the needed key, while raid is capped at one attempt at each respective needed boss per week. Dinar does help with this a lot but is a temporary bandaid unless they flesh it out more. Really, Dinar is essentially a better form of the extra loot roll from the past.
Personally, I adhere to what one of my old friends that used to play used to say: gear is a crutch. A good player’s gonna be good no matter the gear. I am for gear being essentially irrelevant to content and autoscaling (think what used to happen in CMs and in WoD pvp anyway) but also I don’t really feel it matters too much if things are the way they are.
Edit: I’d also reiterate 8-10m mythic raiding please. I’ve had like five raid groups fall apart because the top 4-5 (who most of em weren’t even as good as they think they were) just got tired of the other 5-15 just not nearly pulling the weight they should be. 8-10m mythic does not make this go away but it does put much more significance on pulling one’s weight and would concentrate the groups which right now…are super diluted.
I’ve never found it hard to upgrade though. And vault loot is 304 which is both awesome and not. Keep in mind I’d still say for sure Mythic raid loot IS the best loot other than maybe Elite Glad loot which is comparable in some slots (not trinkets for most classes). Legit the best Dinar items even are the 311 trinkets that are bis for respective classes as well as the 311 tier convertable pieces and other off pieces. Can’t get them anywhere other than raid.
Also just voicing what other people’s issue might be. I have 0 issue with anything other than raid size limitations in mythic. Needing to make 20 people almost always results in deadweight of one form or another. This is also true for 5man or 8man or 10man. But it’s a lot easier to replace that in smaller groups than in larger groups.
Edit: Also I don’t want that to be viewed as me making an excuse for not getting CE I don’t have CE this expac because I didn’t try nearly hard enough for it. I despise the grinds of running through several wannabe guilds to find one that can get there ultimately and hoping it sticks…but I understand and respect it’s part of the process and is fine.
m+ only players yea. I think most people that are interested in keys do raid if only to enhance their key experience. PVP some too if there’s good gear there
Like I don’t think people understand how much time it takes to get each piece you want from a raid with how big the loot pools are. They literally ignore this though.
It’s not hard, it’s capped. A weapon costs 1k to upgrade 1 level. That means it was 4 weeks of capped valor to upgrade it to 298. Literally all your valor for 4 weeks into a single slot.
You’ll have gotten quite a few 291s and even 298s from Heroic in those 4 weeks, 41 bosses.
I mean, that’s entirely a leadership issue. If your leadership is insisting on bringing dead weight, you need new leaders.
A lot less time. Since you know, if you don’t get it, eventually a guildie will and trade it to you.
Ain’t that the truth. Unfortunately good leaders are few and far between. Real life happens a lot with people that do lead well. And for groups that are set up, either they’re not looking or you need to impress on them why they should be bringing you. Which is fine. That’s kinda just life not complaining about it like I said. Just commenting on it
We kicked our GM and raid leader once. True story. He was kinda shocked.
There’s plenty of good raiding guilds out there. Just need to find a good one that fits your raid time. In the interview, they’re not interviewing you only, you’re also interviewing them. Look at their logs, look at their roster, inspect their key players.
Yea I know. Like I said not complaining, just commenting. Almost any good guild worth its salt is always looking for upgrades even if they’re set. You never know when something is gonna change, someone is gonna need to quit or be able to play more. A good guild wants to be fluid and have good leadership that understands that and (this gets underrated and dismissed often) is among the top 5 players within that guild at least. I’ve found that even the most mature or understanding person irl will get no respect or will often be ignored or fought if they can’t show to some degree that they know what they’re doing.
Edit: I am currently not looking for a CE home. I’ve ceded this tier as sort of a non relevant tier since there is no CE to pursue. Would rather be mount farming even with the not so great guild I’m in but they won’t even try to set it up. May look harder at the end of the tier or ideally at the start of dragonflight I have a rogue and a mage on Mal’Ganis to do exactly this
Except every guildie will also need the loot if they don’t do M+? Huh? And then the fact that guildies who don’t share your loot type can steal your loot rolls and get loot that they can’t trade to you.
And to reiterate, the majority of people who raid don’t raid mythic.
Raiding scene is dead because raiding sucks in it’s current state. infinite one shot mechanics and constantly getting harder to the point where 1% of the player base sees it. Not fun for most players, feels as more of a chore than a game.
They don’t delete their loot after just one week of having it.
Rings/Neck/Rings drop for everyone.
It’s ok, those folks don’t do 15 keys either, and most likely wouldn’t have the valor to upgrade their items. Heroic raids would still be faster gearing for them.
Thanks. I just need confirmation on Actual Raiders. I used to be a Raider back in the days before M+ was born. But I had an easy AoTC on Legion. Didnt do KSM becoz I was not well-informed back then… Mythic+ was new then. I thought KSM was doing M+15 on one dungeon and I did that.
I also did AoTC on BFA and I fell short on KSM but I was successful on 5-masks Horrific Visions.
Now on SHadowlands, suddenly I got KSM… I switched over to M+ and missed AoTC. I forgot how Raid gearing looks like. I thought M+ is easier. But I remember when I was doin Raiding over M+ on Legion, I had decent gearing with Raids although M+ was a help. It was Raid and M+ on my head on gearing. Now people is like M+ Vs Raid…
Thanks for confirming how it goes on Raiding, Raiimir.
It’s like this on me. M+ Gearing plus Heroic Raid Gearing is needed to be decent for Mythic Raiding. I’ve never done Mythic Raiding for a long time and even stopped doing Heroic Raiding becoz I cant cope up fast on gear.
It doesn’t matter how many times you repeat this lie, it’s still just you making stuff up and trying to cover for your gravy train gearing system from M+.
You can keep pretending you don’t get awarded a choice of 3 mythic raid ilvl loot per week from failing to time 15’s, but it doesn’t change the fact you do.
It is, don’t believe the guy trying desperately to deflect attention away from his preferred method of easy gearing. M+ rewards better loot for failing to time a key than you get for successfully clearing a raid. Doesn’t matter how quickly or cleanly you clear heroic sepulcher - you will never get a mythic raid ilvl item from there. M+ on the other hand you don’t even have to successfully time, yet it gives you a choice of 3 mythic raid ilvl items at the end of the week!
I don’t have CE this expac because I didn’t try nearly hard enough for it. I despise the grinds of running through several wannabe guilds to find one that can get there ultimately and hoping it sticks…but I understand and respect it’s part of the process and is fine.